Re: City v Shortwood

by the demon headmaster Sat Oct 11, 2014 11:10 pm

The only incentive we need on Tuesday is the £7500 and the prospect of another round. It is inevitable that fans will voice their frustration when poor decisions and execution lead to cheap loss of possession, but personal abuse is unacceptable. The players get frustrated with themselves too, and a few of them were having a particularly hard time. The young centre back from Rovers struggled all afternoon and Kingston didn't use the ball well. Our defence was also all at sea, but what is also obvious is the effort the players were making to stay, then get back into, the game.
Shortwood were excellent. They worked really hard, with some skill, to force us into a long ball game. The substitutions were effective and Stearn was given ample time to affect the match, which he did emphatically. Hemmings was immense (pun intended) and sees passes others don't. He has a great touch (mostly) and continued to bring team mates into play, whilst working tirelessly to keep the attacks moving. He definitely scored the first which span back into play after crossing the line. Addlesbury did well to follow up as I was not confident the officials would have given it. On a final note the guy who was berating Stearn for not pulling the ball back across goal when in a good position would probably like to know that his pass was deflected into the hands of the goalkeeper.

by the demon headmaster Sat Oct 11, 2014 11:14 pm

For Rovers lad read Keary and for Kingston read Kingtq
. It's getting late

by Marc Monitor Sat Oct 11, 2014 11:37 pm

Thanks for this, dm. I didn't fee the deflection either but the difference is that I didn't get on Stearn's (or Pratt's when he did something similar) back.

Idiot by the tea bar is not so discerning.

by yuffie Sun Oct 12, 2014 9:44 am

the demon headmaster wrote:THe definitely scored the first which span back into play after crossing the line. Addlesbury did well to follow up as I was not confident the officials would have given it.

Given the officials' performances I am certain they wouldn't have given it - the linesman certainly didn't flag. And that would have summed our afternoon up to that point.

by comrade powell Sun Oct 12, 2014 9:58 am

Marc, serious question - do you ever consider watching the game from somewhere other than the pop side? I've experienced the clueless comments you describe many times over the years and got into several arguments, the usual repost being "I pay to watch this crap and I'll f****** say what I want. If you don't like it, go somewhere else". So eventually I did and rarely witness similar comments on the opposite side of the ground. Ok, there is plenty of moaning but any abuse is usually shouted down by several others. It's also lovely in the sun!

by BenE Sun Oct 12, 2014 10:24 am

I think Yuffie pretty much sums it up. Shortwood did not look two divisions worse than us and defended stoutly.

I agree that we didn't use the width enough and we will have to if we are going to beat them.

Two people remonstrated with the moaners at the back but some people just like a good moan. As Marc says it wouldn't matter if the crowd was larger.

I also agree that Stearn will probably not start next match. He has lost his match fitness through no fault of his own.

Not sure what Patten brings as he appears to be exactly the same player as Adelsbury in every respect but his ears. Possibly there will be more to come when he gets fit.

Well done to the lads for their commitment.

by Twerton Parker Sun Oct 12, 2014 10:34 am

Getting back to this moaning thing, I was stood by the Tea Bar yesterday and heard all the verbal stuff going on and have to say that, yes, the best way to support the team isn't by berating them when they are clearly doing their best. At the same time, it is easy to understand where the moaning comes from. The vision you enjoy from the top of the poplar stand means that you see things so much differently than at ground level (where the players are!) and with it, you get the frustration that comes when things go wrong. So perhaps for the next home game these moaners should be encouraged to try watching from the bottom of the terrace so that they see the game from the players' prospective.

Having said that nothing excuses the moaning, particularly at a time in the game when the team needed all the support it could get!

by comrade powell Sun Oct 12, 2014 11:55 am

It's a pity, because when they get behind the team (or against our opponents) the support from the pop side can be crucial. I've read on other forums how some away fans consider TP to be quite an intimidating place for their team to play. In the past I've seen teams like Leeds roll over at the Den because of the home support and at our level I always thought Tamworth was a difficult place for City due to the closeness of the fans along their 'pop side' and how they get behind their team.

by LB Sun Oct 12, 2014 12:11 pm

I am a bit concerned that I didn't see the same game as most of the people on here. Can't see how Hemmings was 'the best player on the pitch' as somebody said or our mom (although not sure who would have been).

The frustrating thing for me is that we don't seem to learn. Once again against a team with some of the tallest players I have seen we persisted in playing high balls when in the first 30 minutes or so Watkins had run rings round them with the ball on the ground.

I think we missed a trick with the substitution as well. It always seemed likely that Patten would be the player going off and I thought at that point we could have put Hemmings back in the midfield role he has played before, put Pratt in the middle and Stearn out wide but that didn't seem to happen. On the subject of substitutes, I have to assume that Stearn was the only one likely to come on as presumably McCootie wasn't fit and can't believe we would have used Taylor.

As for Twerton Parker's suggestion that the moaners (who have always been there by the way) on the Popular Side should watch the game from pitch level, perhaps the management should watch it from somewhere other than inside the dugout.

Hopefully we can repeat the Poole replay performance on Tuesday.

by SteveBradley Sun Oct 12, 2014 1:02 pm

Hemmings was poor in his first few games of the season, and that combined with his size and rather lumbering motion means that he got targeted for abuse by some early on.

He's definitely improved since then, and also seems to have lost a bit of weight, so it's unfortunate he isn't getting credit for that. He took his goal very well yesterday, was unlucky not to bag our first, and has developed a niche for himself in playing little lay-offs into forward running players to open up attacks. Hopefully he'll continue growing within the team.

Our approach to subs seems a bit strange though. Rollo won't get a game outside the Somerset Cup, and we never looked like using McCootie. Given we needed a late, late winner it's strange that we didn't look to the subs bench to shake things up a bit before then.

Shortwood will be a tough nut to crack on Tuesday, and we might end up relying on superior fitness/experience to win it. Their big Number 9 was good, but bottled running in on goal twice when he could have and instead pulled wide to play balls in. They also had a player with very tricky feet and a good touch (No 10 ?). It won't be an easy replay up there at all judging by yesterday's very open game.

Very good attendance versus a lower league side though. God knows where they all came from, but let's hope we see them again

by Beau Nash Sun Oct 12, 2014 1:18 pm

Both Chas and Ben Adelsbury have improved in the past few games and are now worthy of their place. cheers

Pre game: Good to see Phil Walsh running around the pitch AND Chris Allen with Frankie Artus training with a parachute and skipping rope. Basketball

No sign of Martin Slocombe. scratch

Shortwood looked a better side than Poole. We ought to up our game, mostly keep the ball on the floor, so should win the replay.

by CityHatcham Sun Oct 12, 2014 1:25 pm

Took a friend yesterday for her first ever football game, she found it very entertaining (although walking past Ken Loach was probably the highlight for her). I thought Shortwood were a very decent side, great to see us dig in. Beautiful weather, long afternoon shadows, tea on the terraces, jumpers for goalposts... a great non-league day out.

by Marc Monitor Sun Oct 12, 2014 1:27 pm

comrade powell wrote:Marc, serious question - do you ever consider watching the game from somewhere other than the pop side? I've experienced the clueless comments you describe many times over the years and got into several arguments, the usual repost being "I pay to watch this crap and I'll f****** say what I want. If you don't like it, go somewhere else". So eventually I did and rarely witness similar comments on the opposite side of the ground. Ok, there is plenty of moaning but any abuse is usually shouted down by several others. It's also lovely in the sun!

Yeah, I do. I start the game next to the chip shop and then, 5 minutes into the second half, I wander across to the front of the tea bar and have a chat with Roy and Mrs Hacksaw. It has become one of those traditions supporters have. The difference, as you mention, is tangible.

by Marc Monitor Sun Oct 12, 2014 1:33 pm

BenE wrote:
Two people remonstrated with the moaners at the back but some people just like a good moan. As Marc says it wouldn't matter if the crowd was larger.

I was certainly one of those two, I think. I get frustrated with the team in general and will give it a "Come on, lads" or similar but it is noticeably different when it is at one player which is why I got unusually feisty with the moaners. We all know that Stearn is a chippy little sod and that is part of what makes him as a player but, at the end of the day, he is still only 24 (half the age at least of some of his critics) and isn't paid to get singled out. He is also the sort of player that will take such abuse badly.

by sean Sun Oct 12, 2014 1:51 pm

I thought it was a really exciting cup tie, although very nerve-wracking at times. Shortwood matched us in many areas, but that is more a case of them rising to the occasion, as they have done so well in the cup recently, as opposed to us playing badly. I left feeling pleased we are still in the cup and optimistic for the replay.

The only sour note was what has already been mentioned, in that a small number of our supporters moaned for large parts of the game. Given the importance of the game, this put me on edge, and it must have been even worse for the players.

We have a good, youthful side (something we have wanted for many years). But as many our players are young, they may take criticism to heart more than older, ex-professionals. I think as supporters, we should be supporting the players and not berating them for a mistimed pass or a shot which goes over the crossbar. There is too much football on television and it makes me wonder if fans watch the likes of Messi and Suarez performing pinpoint passes and expect to see the same at non-league level.

I would like to add, I think it is only a small minority of fans who do this, but it is a case of them shouting louder than those who are supportive and simply want to enjoy a great game of football.

It is clear from results this season that we are stronger away from home and there are lots of arguments as to why this may be. Perhaps without getting shouted at, they feel more relaxed and free to express the talents they have.

In the last 10 seasons, 6 of our FA Cup exits have been at home, with 4 away. Historically, our big FA Cup scalps, with the exception of Hereford, seem to have come away from home too. Is there a reason for this, or is it coincidence?

We all want the same thing - for Bath City to be a success - I wish we could channel all our energy into making Twerton Park a place all our players can feel happy to play.

by comrade powell Sun Oct 12, 2014 2:48 pm

sean wrote:

It is clear from results this season that we are stronger away from home and there are lots of arguments as to why this may be. Perhaps without getting shouted at, they feel more relaxed and free to express the talents they have.
I'm sure it's a factor. Fans aren't going to travel 100 miles to shout abuse at the team.

In the last 10 seasons, 6 of our FA Cup exits have been at home, with 4 away. Historically, our big FA Cup scalps, with the exception of Hereford, seem to have come away from home too. Is there a reason for this, or is it coincidence?

My theory is that the lower level team always has a greater probability of winning if drawn away rather than at home. I doubt if the stats back this up, but there has to be some degree of complacency present when the higher team is at home. I thought we were until their 1st goal yesterday and so were Stoke, Cardiff, Bristol City etc in our memorable away cup matches. I believe the key to winning when playing lower opponents at home is to score 1st and if they score 1st, it's much better if it's earlier in the game!

We all want the same thing - for Bath City to be a success - I wish we could channel all our energy into making Twerton Park a place all our players can feel happy to play.
and opponents to fear!

by pete mac Sun Oct 12, 2014 6:02 pm

Great Cup tie yesterday.

We had a few misfiring players and the back 4 were all at sea against some big players. Anxious about Tuesday.

Chas was the clear man of the match and his header did cross the line. The officials were poor.

Fingers crossed for Tuesday!

by Eddie Hitler Sun Oct 12, 2014 7:22 pm

I heard three City supporters have a go at the moaners yesterday - one was in the first half when someone said "shut the f. up! Why can't you encourage them!".
In the second half at the same time as Marc (I assume) was having 'a word', another guy further along the terrace had a prolonged exchange which include the sentiment "why don't you stay home with the wife if you can't support your team".
There are two particular individuals who had been moaning about too much long-ball, and then completely laid into Stearn for playing the ball into space (referred to above) on the floor. And Ross heard it - it's got to affect the younger players.
Makes you wonder what they get out of their Saturday afternoon out?

by Eddie Hitler Sun Oct 12, 2014 7:27 pm

LB wrote:I think we missed a trick with the substitution as well. It always seemed likely that Patten would be the player going off and I thought at that point we could have put Hemmings back in the midfield role he has played before....

Surely if we'd done that, Hemmings wouldn't have scored his two goals? Shocked

by miker Mon Oct 13, 2014 9:54 pm

The worse aspect about the moaning was that some of it from one bloke in particular, who had been drinking which of course loosens self control, was actually hateful. There was a chap with a small girl nearby and she looked terrified. Her dad, I guess, had taken her to enjoy a game of football but I bet all she and he will remember is the loud foul language and I'd be surprised if they come back again. I would not take any of my grandchildren to a match. For the next few home games it would be nice to have a few stewards on the pop side to chuck out anyone using foul and abusive language.

by Dusty Lynfield Tue Oct 14, 2014 1:53 pm

I agree with Miker. I dislocated my shoulder on Sat morning so had to listen to the game on the radio in A&E.....but sorry to hear about all the abuse stearn got. He isn't my favourite player, but I don't see why fans should be picking on individual players vocally. I sit with my 6 year old son in the family stand most games and have no trouble there and have some very good constructive conversations with other fans in this part of the ground.
I tend to get quite vocal at times whilst watching with son, but am mindful of keeping it positive....you'll always hear some foul language and I have discussed this with my son, but when it develops into a tirade against individual players, it will only put off families and new blood to the fan base. As my son gets older I would like to move over to the pop end with him, but from what I've read on this thread, I'm be leaving it a good few years yet....

by Eddie Hitler Tue Oct 14, 2014 2:54 pm

I know I've been quite vocal on this thread, but I wouldn't want to let things get carried-away. The incidents I've mentioned relate to the reaction of several 'normal' City supporters against the two or three weekly moaners at the back of the Popular stand. I was pleased it happened as these guys need to know they're not being big or clever with their comments. It felt like the crowd policing themselves, which I absolutely welcome.
Excessive foul language isn't good or acceptable (let's face it, most of us do it a bit), and that should be stamped on.

by 2weirdtown Tue Oct 14, 2014 3:14 pm

The 'heritage' nature of TP seems to have promoted a split in attitudes for some -
1. The club promotes itself as 'real' grass roots community based soccer.
2. The tea hut and tunnel twats use it as an excuse to wallow in 1970s style 'blokeyness'.

by Twerton Parker Tue Oct 14, 2014 4:00 pm

miker wrote:The worse aspect about the moaning was that some of it from one bloke in particular, who had been drinking which of course loosens self control, was actually hateful. There was a chap with a small girl nearby and she looked terrified. Her dad, I guess, had taken her to enjoy a game of football but I bet all she and he will remember is the loud foul language and I'd be surprised if they come back again. I would not take any of my grandchildren to a match. For the next few home games it would be nice to have a few stewards on the pop side to chuck out anyone using foul and abusive language.

Sorry if I'm a bit behind with this. Do we have two sets of moaners at the back of the poplar stand? I'd assumed that the references made earlier in this thread were in relation to the group I always see just to the right of the tea bar (if you are facing the pitch), behind the purple pillar. Their main protagonist certainly got a bit of stick in the second half from someone to his right nearer the front of the stand and, to a lesser degree, also from someone more or less in front of him but that said it was all over and done with quickly. In fairness to this group I neither saw or heard evidence of booze talking or foul language being used and I was right in front of them when the things I mentioned were going on. Was there another group a bit further along that you are referring to? Regardless of that, I do agree that it won't do any harm to have a couple of stewards in the stand who can have a gentle word if things do get a bit close to the mark. Witty banter, yes, but abuse, no.

by **davebart** Tue Oct 14, 2014 4:16 pm

While we welcome the comments on the subject of crowd abuse, and the debate has been thoughtful and constructive, can we ask that no attempt is made to identify private individuals on this site.

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