Redevelopment

I see that the Bath Chronicle has news of the proposed redevelopment of TP and High Street. Work to start end of 2018/19 season.

Newsletter subscribers will have also received an update via email, including a link to a detailed Q&A.

This is very encouraging. I personally had doubts about trying to redevelop TP on its own. But including the high street within the redevelopment is a much more exciting prospect as it can be properly planned with the opportunity for the development to generate profit improved.

Great news, a huge step in the right direction! Don't want an artificial pitch though! Football should be played on real grass

Appreciate it's early days but when will the community shareholders see the plan in detail?

I'm sure the Redevelopment working group will ensure that everyone is informed as appropriate. Presumably the Society will be holding its next quarterly meeting with members before long and there will be an opportunity for an update.

The accompanying Q + A includes...

What are the timescales?

We are aiming to spend a year working up proposals with the architects and in conjunction with supporters and the community, with an aim to submit a planning application in September 2018 and start on site at the end of the 2018/19 season.

Presumably any discussions with supporters and interested parties will be constrained by Nic Blofeld's warning that "without the significant investment in infrastructure and facilities to generate more income, the future of football at Twerton Park will be 'highly uncertain'”.

I agree with cbtroman's point about real grass and also hope for a level playing surface on which to plant said grass.

miker wrote:I agree with cbtroman's point about real grass and also hope for a level playing surface on which to plant said grass.

I have to share something I heard of a football chat show some while ago. "Plastic pitches are the future of grass roots football" I thought that was very funny.

I appreciate the comments re wanting to keep a grass pitch, and I too would prefer to watch games on such a surface......however - the potential revenue that a 3G pitch would bring in would be significant and really contribute to securing the club's future at Twerton Park. My son plays for two Youth FC's in Bath and there is a real shortage of year-round (with lighting) pitches in the area. It wouldn't be just the income from pitch hire, there's the coffees and teas from the Mum's and Dad's....along with the opportunity for having a "captive audience" of potential new fans being exposed to Twerton Park and coming on a Saturday. Sure that it won't please the purists, but really has to be considered. I've worked in and around Twerton for years and this joined up delivery of TP and High Street is just what the community is crying out for - I look forward to seeing more detailed proposals!

I agree and it would seem a no-brainer to go down the 3G/4G pitch route.

Having now seen City play on such surfaces three or four times, there has been no noticeable difference to the games whatsoever.

And given we are at least 2-3 years from actually laying a new pitch, no doubt the technology involved will have improved even further.

LB wrote:Presumably any discussions with supporters and interested parties will be constrained by Nic Blofeld's warning that "without the significant investment in infrastructure and facilities to generate more income, the future of football at Twerton Park will be 'highly uncertain'”.

I don't this will come as a surprise to anyone with even just a passing interest in the club.

Dusty Lynfield wrote:It wouldn't be just the income from pitch hire, there's the coffees and teas from the Mum's and Dad's....along with the opportunity for having a "captive audience" of potential new fans being exposed to Twerton Park and coming on a Saturday.

I honestly don't think the demand would be there, but I'm hardly qualified to talk about it. The Odd Down one costs an arm and a leg to play a match on. Hence why grass roots, i.e. Sunday morning football, is dying. Would the Twerton locals really come out in force to use it?

I'd be more open to the idea if we were constantly suffering problems with our pitch like Weston do, but our surface is superb and I am set in my ways that football should be played on grass. I've played on 3G a few times. It's ok, 5 a-side on it is ideal, but for a full match it just doesn't feel right. I can cope with seeing us play on it a couple of times a season, but week-in week-out would be unusual to say the least.

The other issue is that, at the moment, the Football League doesn't accept it. Ok, we're far away from that level and things could change in the meantime, but it doesn't come across as very ambitious if we're happy to play as high as one league above and no further. I'm not saying I'm craving for us to play in the Football League but always nice to have a dream to not spend every other week playing the same teams along the M4/M25 corridor.

It'll be interesting to see a layout of the plans. Oh, and looking forward to having a tarmacked car park. Shove some 3G there instead

Attracted to the 4G option. More pitches will bring price down, make it more affordable, create interest, improve skill levels. Look how many artificial pitches on the continent. Look how many World Cups we've won and they ve won !

From City perspective, revenue generation and community appeal we have to be forward looking. Not so much whether we can, but can we afford not to?

stillmanjunior wrote:

The other issue is that, at the moment, the Football League doesn't accept it. Ok, we're far away from that level and things could change in the meantime, but it doesn't come across as very ambitious if we're happy to play as high as one league above and no further. I'm not saying I'm craving for us to play in the Football League but always nice to have a dream to not spend every other week playing the same teams along the M4/M25 corridor.

Pretty sure last time League Two voted against it by just one vote, and now it's back on the agenda:

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/862773/EFL-League-One-League-Two-Artificial-Pitches

The smart money says that League Two will allow plastic well before we're a League club.

(I'm not particularly in favour of 3G, mind)

miker wrote:I agree with cbtroman's point about real grass and also hope for a level playing surface on which to plant said grass.

Ok well that's just sacrilege. I would hope that any 3G pitch would perfectly preserve the Twerton Park Slope!!

stillmanjunior wrote:

It'll be interesting to see a layout of the plans. Oh, and looking forward to having a tarmacked car park. Shove some 3G there instead  

What on earth makes you think there's going to be a car park? Possibly put a tennis court on it.

kermit wrote:

stillmanjunior wrote:

It'll be interesting to see a layout of the plans. Oh, and looking forward to having a tarmacked car park. Shove some 3G there instead  

What on earth makes you think there's going to be a car park? Possibly put a tennis court on it.

In which case, leave a gap big enough to squeeze cars in and remove the net. Just anything to avoid my tyres being destroyed by potholes the size of Saturn.

I can assure people that there would be a demand for more 3/4G, but I'm not suggesting in the first instance that it would so much Twerton community using it.....if you knew how much Bath City Youth spend on facilities hire, not to mention Larkhall Youth, BWB, etc, the financial benefits really start to come into their own. I have sat in various several Youth Managers meetings where have been heated discussions about who can use Odd Down rather than playing on further afield, less "all weather" facilities. The vast majority of the £270 subs that I pay for my son's membership of two of these clubs each season goes on training pitch hire....multiply that by the several hundred kids in youth football in Bath and the sums start adding up. There are also several grants open to a community owned club to subsidise the initial laying of a pitch to help it turn a profit for the club quicker.
As I say, in a perfect world, I would love us to have a grass pitch like the fantastic one we have now....but I would choose staying at Twerton Park with 4G, than the Club having to move elsewhere to make the finances work (which if we're honest won't be in Bath...Odd Down at best).

I full accept the need to redevelop parts of TP, and wait to see what the planning application looks like, hope we don't shaft the Twerton community by chasing solely student cash, but I'm intrigued to see what the plans are, what a new main stand would look like (For what it's worth I liked Dartford bar/clubhouse when I was last there) .

I disagree with yuffie's assertion that the game on 3G isn't different. I thought it looked like a crap version of top flight football rather than non-league, and my abiding memories are of watching Watkins look mightily pissed off every time he was picking himself off the floor after getting tripped and hitting a sold mass, picking rubber crumbs out of cuts etc.

I also accept there's no way we're not getting 3G, so am going to enjoy the last season and a half of proper football.

Jon_BOA wrote:I disagree with yuffie's assertion that the game on 3G isn't different. I thought it looked like a crap version of top flight football rather than non-league, and my abiding memories are of watching Watkins look mightily pissed off every time he was picking himself off the floor after getting tripped and hitting a sold mass, picking rubber crumbs out of cuts etc.

I think that games at our level could be described as 'a crap version of top flight football' regardless of the surface! And Watkins, quite rightly, always looks pissed off after he's been tripped (especially when the ref doesn't give a penalty)!

Also, don't we train on 3G at Filton now?

However, it would be interesting to hear what our players think of the pitches. I might try and ask a few at Eastbourne next month.

Dusty Lynfield wrote:I can assure people that there would be a demand for more 3/4G, but I'm not suggesting in the first instance that it would so much Twerton community using it.....if you knew how much Bath City Youth spend on facilities hire, not to mention Larkhall Youth, BWB, etc, the financial benefits really start to come into their own.  I have sat in various several Youth Managers meetings where have been heated discussions about who can use Odd Down rather than playing on further afield, less "all weather" facilities.  The vast majority of the £270 subs that I pay for my son's membership of two of these clubs each season goes on training pitch hire....multiply that by the several hundred kids in youth football in Bath and the sums start adding up.  There are also several grants open to a community owned club to subsidise the initial laying of a pitch to help it turn a profit for the club quicker.
As I say, in a perfect world, I would love us to have a grass pitch like the fantastic one we have now....but I would choose staying at Twerton Park with 4G, than the Club having to move elsewhere to make the finances work (which if we're honest won't be in Bath...Odd Down at best).

Good point - I also wonder whether Twerton Park would be a more attractive place for adults to play than Odd Down - playing in a proper ground, closer to town, walking distance of student halls etc.

Regarding making the finances work, I think we can stay at a redeveloped TP no matter what, but it would likely be a case of "Grass in the Southern League or 4G in the Conf South/Prem".

I am fully supportive of a partial redevelopment and could be very positive for Twerton if affordable/ social/ key worker housing is involved.

I am hoping however in terms of a vote it will be very separate from the proposal of a plastic pitch?

Timbo_b-o-a wrote:I am hoping however in terms of a vote it will be very separate from the proposal of a plastic pitch?

That was what I was going to ask. Apologies if it's in the Q&A and I've missed it, but is it the club's decision alone whether we change the surface, or does it go to a vote?

stillmanjunior wrote:

Timbo_b-o-a wrote:I am hoping however in terms of a vote it will be very separate from the proposal of a plastic pitch?

That was what I was going to ask. Apologies if it's in the Q&A and I've missed it, but is it the club's decision alone whether we change the surface, or does it go to a vote?

When I was a Society Committee member I asked and received assurances from Nick Blofeld that the two matters would be considered/voted on separately, even if 3G was presented as part of a redevelopment proposal - i.e. that supporters couldn't be presented with "3G or nothing".

As for a vote - we are supposed to be having a Society Interim General Meeting in November. I would strongly suggest that someone proposes a motion to the effect of, "Any change in the playing surface to artificial turf must be approved by a majority of members and considered independently of any other proposal". This should guarantee a vote, otherwise it would be up to the club whether to put it to a vote or just push ahead.

ETA: It's important to recognise that the redevelopment is about the one-off raising of capital that will repay debt, while 3G is about improving ongoing revenues. In that sense they are separate issues - although from a practical perspective, you may as well just do both at once if that's what you want to do. So it makes sense for us to vote/decide on both at once, but don't be led into thinking that it's "3G or bust".

It rather annoys me that a 3G pitch is seen as a cure for all ills. How many games per week are we currently turning away?

While the redevelopment is a great idea I'm slightly saddened the proposal had to go down the normal property developers scare mongering route of mentioning...

"without the significant investment in infrastructure and facilities to generate more income, the future of football at Twerton Park will be 'highly uncertain'”.

That quote may have been left out with the proposal still as valid.