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Dover thread

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Post by comrade powell Sat Oct 29, 2022 1:07 pm

The first of two home fixtures in four days against long time rivals. Some older Dover fans will never forgive us for the League taking away their promotion place all those years ago but we’ve played some cracking games against them. Those two in the Trophy quarter final were amongst the most dramatic I can remember. Hopefully today’s will be equally so….
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Post by comrade powell Sat Oct 29, 2022 1:10 pm

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Post by Luton Roman Sat Oct 29, 2022 5:54 pm

Not as dramatic. Poor City performance in final third. Dover no.10 Wanadio different class all game and fittingly tucked away winnerin 1st half. City delivery and desire to get the first touch not good enough. We seem to lack someone wliling to take a defender on, it's backwards and sidewards, then a through ball that fails. Can't remember the keeper being tested despite a period in 1st half where we came  close but not on target.

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Post by BenE Sat Oct 29, 2022 6:00 pm

I think the lads wore themselves out Wednesday and couldn't deal with the physicality and size of Dover. The substitutes made a determined effort but we were unlikely to get anything from our many corners even if they had been well delivered. Jordan Dyer is very good at making the right runs at corners and we need to do something different when he isn't there. Today if we had had someone beyond the 6 yard box they would have had some joy.
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Post by comrade powell Sat Oct 29, 2022 6:19 pm

Agree about their number 10 - what is he doing playing at this level?
I know that playing at home against teams who pack their defence, especially after taking the lead, is a very different proposition to playing away but you couldn’t have had a more different performance compared to the one at Havant. Our record is suggesting that we are  more comfortable and successful away from Twerton.
Will need a big improvement on that for Tuesday.
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Post by pete mac Sat Oct 29, 2022 7:43 pm

So disappointing to fail at home again. We are better away. Jerry needs to set the team up to go for it on Tuesday.

We are getting great home crowds- maybe we are turning into the West Country Dulwich

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Post by Dave Sat Oct 29, 2022 8:48 pm

pete mac wrote:maybe we are turning into the West Country Dulwich

Correct. The place has been noticeably more placid this season, I don't know why. The singing sections seem to be struggling since the bar was introduced too. Twerton is becoming too nice and friendly a place to come for away sides, they're comfortable and enjoying their day out, not enough hostility. There was an eerie hush for the last 5-10 mins of the 90, a complete contrast to Havant on Wednesday with a smaller crowd.

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Post by comrade powell Sat Oct 29, 2022 9:01 pm

I don’t know if it’s the same on the terraces but I’ve noticed at the last few games in the stand that those sitting near me have little interest in what is going on in front of them. Having put up with a loud couple talking about Bath shopping last week, today’s topic from another pair concerned Spurs’ current form. What a contrast to that fantastic Torquay game a few years back when the roof almost came off the old structure.
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Post by Luton Roman Sat Oct 29, 2022 9:43 pm

comrade powell wrote:I don’t know if it’s the same on the terraces but I’ve noticed at the last few games in the stand that those sitting near me have little interest in what is going on in front of them. Having put up with a loud couple talking about Bath shopping last week, today’s topic from another pair concerned Spurs’ current form. What a contrast to that fantastic Torquay game a few years back when the roof almost came off the old structure.

Age old question whether players get crowd going or vice versa. 1 win in last 5 home games exc Brislington, its great they turn up at all!

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Post by Peter Newman Sun Oct 30, 2022 10:03 am

One possible factor is we have no 'blood & thunder' type players in the side that can get the crowd lifted. May not make results different but it does give supporters raised spirits.
As posted above there was no crowd uplift in the final minutes but I think most of us had, by this point, decided defeat was inevitable.
I do worry that our vastly increased gates are just a short-term phenomenen. Not sure if any students who were at the ground last week turned up yesterday.
We have been fortunate that most Saturday home matches have taken place in decent weather so will be interesting to see what happens if or when the more miserable conditions arrive.
I still watch from my regular spot accompanied by others who have been based there for years.
There is no Dulwich style there but others have said they have noticed it elsewhere in the ground. The thought of us becoming another Dulwich (other than gate levels) does fill me with horror.

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Post by LB Sun Oct 30, 2022 12:06 pm

Although yesterday was disappointing it showed what fine margins there are. If the ball which bounced around the Dover box in the first half hitting the post before finding its way back to the keeper or Parselle's free header on the stroke of half time had gone in the only real defensive error we made wouldn't have been so crucial.

Hopefully on Tuesday Chelmsford will have one eye on their cup game at Barnet on Saturday.

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Post by stillmanjunior Sun Oct 30, 2022 8:13 pm

I was shocked at how resolute Dover were. Watched back bits of their games earlier this season and their full-backs played insanely high and they looked vulnerable on the break. One was suspended yesterday and other benched so they used two CMs as a gamble and it paid off. Which in hindsight looks like managerial genius, but as Les says if those couple of chances go in first half, when we had our best spell, it could have been so different.

Wanadio played against us last year for Dartford and was poor, he was farmed out to Folkestone on loan by the end of it where he scored a lot and has clearly worked for him. Scored the winner v us for the Darts in 2016.

In terms of atmosphere, I agree with Dave. Last five minutes on Saturday I could clearly hear the players shout. At Havant there felt like a real edge in stoppage time. Don't get me wrong, I don't want our place to be like the New Den and have a sea of stewards in force, but amazed at how it's become quiet when we're having a decent season. My fear when the bar came in was more trouble and hostility, that hasn't happened at all. Hard to find out the solution as I get the impression it's making an awful lot of money which we can hardly turn down.
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Post by 2weirdtown Sun Oct 30, 2022 11:29 pm

Interesting comments regarding our good crowds and comparisons with Dulwich.
Seems to me football crowds are higher in general since the pandemic. In league 2 yesterday there were only 2 attendances (where given) of below 4,000. I can remember in times past that most games at this level were 2-3,000.
.
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Post by comrade powell Mon Oct 31, 2022 9:27 am

I don’t know about attendances at League level but Saturday’s programme said that 16 NLS clubs had seen a reduction compared to last season’s averages.

While ours showed a drop of only 0.17%, amongst the most alarming drops are…

Weymouth 35% (partly explained by far smaller away support?)
Oxford 33%
St Albans 30%
Concord 28%
Hampton 27%
Dartford 25%
Havant 19%
Dulwich 15%
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Post by Jon_BOA Mon Oct 31, 2022 10:35 am

Peter Newman wrote:I do worry that our vastly increased gates are just a short-term phenomenen. Not sure if any students who were at the ground last week turned up yesterday.

Perhaps I'm being too optimistic (not a character trait often found in football fans!) but I'm fairly confident our crowds will hold up, they did last year after all and we were awful to watch last season, if crowds can stay high after what was 20 odd games of utter dross, then I'd like to think they'll stay high this season when we aren't anywhere near as poor. That said, on a slightly less optimistic note, who knows what will happen outside of football and whether inflation etc., will really start to bite into people's disposable income.

In regards to the atmosphere, I think Peter is correct, we could have played until Sunday and not scored, it was fairly obvious that it wasn't going to be our day, while I have to admit I don't think the bar has helped the atmosphere, but has hopefully helped the finances.

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Post by comrade powell Mon Oct 31, 2022 1:16 pm

I know it's down to opinions and I'd agree that the football on offer is more entertaining in home matches this season compared to much of last, but the stats suggest we are not that more successful. Three league defeats already and a failure to put away two lower level teams.
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Post by Peter Newman Mon Oct 31, 2022 2:04 pm

Comrade has pointed out that, compared to the previous season, we and many others have shown a reduction. However reductions may be due, partly, to last season's total average would have included the positive impact of Xmas/New Year fixtures. If we excluded the Chippenham attendance from last season it would show our current average is higher than the last.

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Post by comrade powell Mon Oct 31, 2022 2:19 pm

Totally agree about our average, Peter, but I don't think the likes of Oxford and Dulwich can use that defence. And as a counter, one could argue that this season has seen remarkably good weather for the first two months to bring out the crowds.

I think that Weirdtown was right about the post pandemic freedoms encouraging higher attendances but the trend at our level appears to be a gradual return to normal.
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Post by Jon_BOA Mon Oct 31, 2022 2:37 pm

comrade powell wrote:I know it's down to opinions and I'd agree that the football on offer is more entertaining in home matches this season compared to much of last, but the stats suggest we are not that more successful. Three league defeats already and a failure to put away two lower level teams.

Agreed, I haven't actually seen us win in the league since September 13th, so I'm not saying we're brilliant, but last year was utterly terrible, and the crowds held up. I don't think this side is actually going to trouble the playoffs, as there are (for me) too many flaws, but we shouldn't be down near the relegation spots either - I hope!

I'm not sure I'm worried about a 0.17% drop in crowds Peter! There's statistically significant, and then there's that. Although I am surprised by some of the other clubs large drops and would be interested if there are obvious reasons.

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Post by BenE Mon Oct 31, 2022 8:13 pm

Looking back at the cast list for last season amply illustrates why we struggled. There are a number of truly uninspiring midfielders. I think we have better balance this season.
As Stillman notes Dover were resolute - and that includes committing fouls whenever we looked like breaking clear. This, which the referee indulged, meant Dover (having a load of big old lumps) were comfortable defending in numbers.  It was difficult to go through them.
If we are going to counter this we need to be prepared to break their lines by someone taking on an opponent. Make use of give and go more. And this will get the crowd going.
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Post by Colin Voutt Mon Oct 31, 2022 10:04 pm

BenE wrote:Looking back at the cast list for last season amply illustrates why we struggled. There are a number of truly uninspiring midfielders. I think we have better balance this season.
As Stillman notes Dover were resolute - and that includes committing fouls whenever we looked like breaking clear. This, which the referee indulged, meant Dover (having a load of big old lumps) were comfortable defending in numbers.  It was difficult to go through them.
If we are going to counter this we need to be prepared to break their lines by someone taking on an opponent. Make use of give and go more. And this will get the crowd going.

Plus,a number of players, particularly 4 & 11, MUST have attended courses at RADA,

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