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Should the Bath End or the Bristol End be the designated away section?

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Post by Luton Roman on Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:04 pm

Could it also depend on away coach access to the ground? currently any coaches come in to the away end of the ground, it would seem sensible to ensure that principle continues.

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Post by comrade powell on Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:33 am

There should be provision made for the visiting team coach, with the planned changing rooms nearest the car park entrance. As for supporters coaches, personally I’d be surprised if they are provided for with the limited parking space. This is sometimes the case when we travel away. And on at least two occasions this season the team coach has had to park away from the ground.
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Post by Midsomer-steve on Fri Dec 06, 2019 1:17 am

Surely we should not stoop to those levels though - our new build should provide the means to accommodate such a basic requirement, out of respect for our visitors, whoever they are.
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Post by OliverH on Fri Dec 06, 2019 8:41 am

COMMENTS FROM 30 NOV SESSION:

- The Away End should be the Bath End
- Bristol End!! Bath End for the Bath fans!
- The away end should be the end bringing in the most money for the specific game
- The Bath End should be - - THE BATH END. Full stop!
- Bristol End
- Bath End City End As Is
- Bristol End
- Bath End
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Post by OliverH on Fri Dec 06, 2019 8:43 am

Peter Newman wrote:The problem is that the only need for segregation is the big games against well supported opposition.  E.g Luton and Torquay recently.
By restricting their numbers we miss out on good gate income as the reduced level of away support is unlikely to be offset by home supporters.
I suppose there would need to be a flexible system where the home end is normally the Bristol end but switched to the opposite end for certain games. We have to bear in mind that for FA Cup games the opponents have to be offered a certain percentage (25%?) of the available capacity.

This is an interesting point - we seem to have been assuming up until now that in "big games", Bath City fans will fill our allocation no matter what, so we can increase our share and reduce away fans'. If we draw Chelsea in the FA Cup that's no doubt true, but Torquay?
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Post by comrade powell on Fri Dec 06, 2019 11:44 am

Midsomer-steve wrote:Surely we should not stoop to those levels though - our new build should provide the means to accommodate such a basic requirement, out of respect for our visitors, whoever they are.

A rather unfortunate phrase. I'm sure what ever decision is taken in this respect won't be out of malice or a lack of respect for away fans. As you know, visiting supporters are always made very welcome at TP. However a short walk from a dropping off point away from the ground is surely acceptable. I think you will find that at present we only have room for one supporters coach so on the rare occasions when there are more they have to disembark and park elsewhere.

When we travel to Welling, for example, are you put out by the fact that the coach drops you in the street and then has to park some distance away?

As one who travels to all of our away fixtures you've surely noticed that our car park is one of the smaller, narrower ones and the plans for redevelopment will further reduce the capacity and possibly space for coaches to manoeuvre.
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Post by Midsomer-steve on Sat Dec 07, 2019 2:19 am

That is not the concept that I have viewed on the plans I have seen. I understood that there would be provision for two visitors coaches.

In answer to your various points:-

It is NOT an unfortunate phrase - It is bad enough to realise how little car parking there will be in the future, but if my eyes did deceive me when I saw initial diagrams, it would be embarrassing if we had to tell visiting Clubs that their supporter's coaches would have to find somewhere else to park! At the moment, as you say, we have room in our present car park to accommodate two coaches, therefore if a very well supported team arrives with more than one supporter's coach, and they tell us in advance, they know that a third or more coaches will have to find roadside parking; but it is inconceivable to think that the 'new build' will not be able to accommodate two coaches as we do now. The Welling example is almost unique, and it is well known that visiting coaches cannot park there - but they are advised by their stewards where to park up. If they were ever to redevelop their ground I would be surprised if they didn't consider parking coaches more of a priority. As for our car park being on the small side, as it is at present, I don't think that we should be proud about there being even less parking space in future - again, when I saw the new road layouts, am I not right in saying that all parking will be on-road, around the ground, and that therefore the two specific coach spaces that were included (unless I dreamt about them) would not cause any manoeuvrability problems.
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Post by tovid on Sat Dec 07, 2019 9:52 pm

There is no leeway for changing the parking arrangement from what has been submitted for planning. The time to raise this was during the initial consultations.
Personally I do not see an issue if an away coach is able to drop people off and find parking nearby. Doesn't the coach have to drop off at Hampton too?
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Post by Dave on Sun Dec 08, 2019 5:45 pm

Re away support capacity being a potential issue for having the Bath end designated as the away end, with the Pop side likely to be worked on to bring up the level of terracing at that end, perhaps some dividing gates can be added a short way up the Pop side at that end for segragation use when needed.
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Post by comrade powell on Wed Dec 11, 2019 3:25 pm

Steve, to reply to some of your points...

Midsomer-steve wrote:That is not the concept that I have viewed on the plans I have seen. I understood that there would be provision for two visitors coaches.  I've checked the plans which were made public and the Club's 'expert' on this - there's no mention of coach provision. That doesn't necessarily mean that a team coach will not be able to access the car park.

In answer to your various points:-

It is NOT an unfortunate phrase - It is bad enough to realise how little car parking there will be in the future, but if my eyes did deceive me when I saw initial diagrams, it would be embarrassing if we had to tell visiting Clubs that their supporter's coaches would have to find somewhere else to park! At the moment, as you say, we have room in our present car park to accommodate two coaches, therefore if a very well supported team arrives with more than one supporter's coach, and they tell us in advance, they know that a third or more coaches will have to find roadside parking; but it is inconceivable to think that the 'new build' will not be able to accommodate two coaches as we do now.
We will have to agree to disagree on how fortunate your phrase was. But I'm sure you appreciate that the proposals aim to maximise the total space available - more car parking space equals less space for the buildings.

The Welling example is almost unique, and it is well known that visiting coaches cannot park there - but they are advised by their stewards where to park up. If they were ever to redevelop their ground I would be surprised if they didn't consider parking coaches more of a priority.
I'd be very surprised if Welling prioritised coach parking! Clubs tend to cover what is required of them and are unlikely to pay for what is not needed. The National League rules do not specify that clubs must provide coach parking (for team or supporters), but only for the match officials and visiting club officials. And while you use the coach far more than I do these days a simple check with the Supporters Club suggested that the Welling example is not unique...
For clubs we have visited in the past few seasons, those with no parking so coaches must drop off and have to find parking elsewhere or on public roads (even team coach at some grounds) include...

St Albans (coaches can drop off in the park but can no longer stay there)
Hampton & Richmond
Chippenham
Woking
Welling
Torquay
Dover
Ebbsfleet
Gosport
E. Thurrock
Weston Super Mare

Other parking....

Hungerford (last season parked on verge of car park entrance, previous seasons in road near ground)
Wealdstone - entrance lane of ground
Hemel - entrance lane of ground
Maidenhead - entrance lane of ground
Oxford - road within sports complex
Poole - school car park next to ground
Dulwich - designated road behind ground with stewards and bollarded entrance
This suggests that we are one of few clubs who allow parking on their land. And some - Havant, Chelmsford, Weymouth - have much larger and less narrow car parks than ours.

As for our car park being on the small side, as it is at present, I don't think that we should be proud about there being even less parking space in future - again, when I saw the new road layouts, am I not right in saying that all parking will be on-road, around the ground, and that therefore the two specific coach spaces that were included (unless I dreamt about them) would not cause any manoeuvrability problems.
I think it's a case of being practical/realistic rather than proud. I'm not sure what you mean by 'all parking will be on road'. I guess that the intention is for the limited space in the proposed car park to be used for visiting officials, BCFC team management, players, sponsors and season ticket holders who have purchased a space. If there are spaces remaining I assume they will be sold on the day as at present.
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Post by Midsomer-steve on Sat Dec 14, 2019 1:28 am

Martin,

Thank you for your most comprehensive reply to my viewpoints in defence of my initial posting. I am indebted to be liaising with such a learned member of the Board, and you have disclosed something that I was totally unaware of - I am flabbergasted by the fact that there is no mandatory requirement for a Club to provide for team coach parking let alone a supporters coach. We must currently be highly thought of to provide spaces for both. I think, though, that you only have one leg to stand on in your attempt to disprove what I said in respect to the Welling example being almost unique:- You have cheekily listed all Clubs, that we have played in the last few years, without these facilities, whereas it would have been fairer (to my mind) to have just taken a snapshot of any one season e.g. in this season you would only have listed three such Clubs, thereby making Welling almost unique - and there was no need to mention the others at all as, as you say, they have coach parking adjacent to their grounds.
Regardless of all of these facts and figures however, there is an overarching point of principal. All through my life I have believed that if you give somebody something it is wrong to unexplainably take it away again. The receiver is grateful initially, but then is sorry/sad/sore/or even angry in the end. I understand that parking space will be at a premium, but, for the sake of a very few car spaces, we could maintain our excellent hospitality to our visitors. Unlike at least some of the clubs that you mention, the roads around Twerton are narrow, and, unless the match day coaches are pre-warned and plan accordingly, they may find it very difficult to park anywhere near the ground.
Finally, I wonder, how does all this stack up in the future, when we are striving to move up a level or two!
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Post by comrade powell on Sat Dec 14, 2019 10:15 am

I would have thought it was obvious that I listed other clubs without coach parking to show how we compare. It’s irrelevant whether we have visited those grounds this season or in the recent past.
To put you in the picture re communicating with other clubs, I’m sure that we advise on coach parking arrangements so if one or more were unable to use TP it would be a case of the driver dropping off fans in the High Street and then parking well away. Is this so different to the coaches bringing hordes to the Xmas market in town? - I believe they now park at the Odd Down Park and Ride. Our coaches to Welling no longer park outside on that busy road but are directed to somewhere some distance away. As for your last line, I repeat it will depend on the requirements of the level which we are playing at and what the ground requirements are.
No more from me on this matter!
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Post by Midsomer-steve on Sun Dec 15, 2019 12:28 am

comrade powell wrote:I would have thought it was obvious that I listed other clubs without coach parking to show how we compare. It’s irrelevant whether we have visited those grounds this season or in the recent past. No it is not. You are just being unfair in trying to justify your biased statement.
To put you in the picture re communicating with other clubs, I’m sure that we advise on coach parking arrangements so if one or more were unable to use TP it would be a case of the driver dropping off fans in the High Street and then parking well away. Is this so different to the coaches bringing hordes to the Xmas market in town? - I believe they now park at the Odd Down Park and Ride. Our coaches to Welling no longer park outside on that busy road but are directed to somewhere some distance away. As for your last line, I repeat ? it will depend on the requirements of the level which we are playing at and what the ground requirements are.
You obviously do not agree with the principal I quoted! Shame. Agreed though, enough said. Readers of the exchange of views on this matter will now have made their own minds made up.
No more from me on this matter!
Nor me either.
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Post by Dave on Mon Mar 02, 2020 5:30 pm

Another reason the away end should not be next to the new buildings

https://twitter.com/FootyLimbs/status/1234525000876613632?s=20
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