Statement from the club

Page 2 of 5 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

Go down

Statement from the club - Page 2 Empty Re: Statement from the club

Post by PHILB1973# on Fri Nov 07, 2014 1:50 pm

Going by what was written on the offical site i suppose that the board have never stated that they would publicise their findings/thoughts.
PHILB1973#
PHILB1973#

Posts : 104
Join date : 2014-02-25
Age : 46
Location : Bristol

Back to top Go down

Statement from the club - Page 2 Empty Re: Statement from the club

Post by 2weirdtown on Fri Nov 07, 2014 4:03 pm

They've announced a new date for City V Hemel Hempstead - What more do you want?!
Neutral
2weirdtown
2weirdtown

Posts : 711
Join date : 2014-02-20
Location : Bridport via East Twerton

Back to top Go down

Statement from the club - Page 2 Empty Re: Statement from the club

Post by comrade powell on Fri Nov 07, 2014 8:01 pm

Blood!
comrade powell
comrade powell

Posts : 4985
Join date : 2014-01-27

Back to top Go down

Statement from the club - Page 2 Empty Re: Statement from the club

Post by bristoldome on Fri Nov 07, 2014 9:50 pm

No one seen the latest statement? Club likely to be sold!!!!!!

bristoldome

Posts : 32
Join date : 2014-04-29

Back to top Go down

Statement from the club - Page 2 Empty Re: Statement from the club

Post by 2weirdtown on Fri Nov 07, 2014 10:52 pm

A pity if this were to happen given the other news item on City's website regarding the league's initiative to reduce debt at clubs
2weirdtown
2weirdtown

Posts : 711
Join date : 2014-02-20
Location : Bridport via East Twerton

Back to top Go down

Statement from the club - Page 2 Empty Re: Statement from the club

Post by Midsomer-steve on Fri Nov 07, 2014 11:42 pm

So - my immediate reaction to the Board's statement is that the Board is so very very wrong. Seems to me that the undynamic duo are completely immune from criticism, the blame for the erratic league season start, and even the totally abysmal exit from the FA Cup, the Board says, is because of injuries and lack of money. What amazes me at this minute is that there is no apparent recognition that injuries were always likely to happen (could even be a heavier toll when winter sets in!); and the finances have been hit hard through falling attendances, let alone a golden opportunity to get further in the Cup, which can be attributed to bad management combined with a distinct failing of the Club to communicate the aforementioned reason to its 'customers'. The Board is a disgrace for not coming up with more positive action. To me the team management is not good enough, and, far from it being cheap, it is so expensive that it is causing the Club to implode into a sea of debt because of its unpopularity with a lot of its former fans. I have lost count of the number of times people have said to me that they will return to watch AFTER the current management have been dismissed. I am now beginning to think that new blood is needed in the Boardroom as well as in the dugout.
Midsomer-steve
Midsomer-steve

Posts : 973
Join date : 2014-02-22
Age : 72
Location : Midsomer Norton

Back to top Go down

Statement from the club - Page 2 Empty Re: Statement from the club

Post by Midsomer-chris on Sat Nov 08, 2014 12:49 am

I cannot believe that the Board have put out such a negative statement . . . . in our 125th year. This year should have been about a positive drive forward,  celebration of its history, as many fund raising and fun activites as possible. Get people interested in things going on in the club, which will in turn bring people in to watch matches which will in turn bring new people and new ideas.

I thought Richard III's question about amibition was interesting. Without ambition it is inevitable that the club is just going to drift.

If the board and management cannot manage a positive upturn they should do one of two things . . . . . . . resign and let other more enthusiastic people take over OR look around to see what other clubs are doing. We live not far away from Paulton Rovers and whenever you go in their club house it is buzzing. They open the bar every night and hire out rooms to people beside putting on a variety of fund raising / entertaining events.  Someone there is obviously getting things right . . . . . . our board need to take a leaf out of their book instead of just expecting fans to put their hands in their pockets for donations.
Midsomer-chris
Midsomer-chris

Posts : 940
Join date : 2014-02-21
Age : 61

Back to top Go down

Statement from the club - Page 2 Empty Re: Statement from the club

Post by Stuart on Sat Nov 08, 2014 8:50 am

Richard111 wrote: how long does it take to say nothing is changing?


About a week and half apparantly. What a dismal future we have. I'm sorry to say that the tightrope City walk is now wobbling.

However I was expecting nothing else. Adie Britton it seems has some sort of hold over this club that needs to be explained.

Nothing other than a FA trophy Wembly appearance will change my mind about the management of this once great club.

It's now seems that it's run by a incompetent bunch top to bottom.

Stuart

Posts : 2
Join date : 2014-11-03

Back to top Go down

Statement from the club - Page 2 Empty Re: Statement from the club

Post by Eddie Hitler on Sat Nov 08, 2014 9:05 am

Midsomer-chris wrote:We live not far away from Paulton Rovers and whenever you go in their club house it is buzzing. They open the bar every night and hire out rooms to people beside putting on a variety of fund raising / entertaining events.  Someone there is obviously getting things right . . . . . . our board need to take a leaf out of their book instead of just expecting fans to put their hands in their pockets for donations.
A little unfair.
As you live in Paulton you may not be aware that there is also going on at Twerton Park during the week and especially at the weekends. Andy weeks has worked his socks off to increase the use of the club.
Eddie Hitler
Eddie Hitler

Posts : 163
Join date : 2014-02-21

Back to top Go down

Statement from the club - Page 2 Empty Re: Statement from the club

Post by Beau Nash on Sat Nov 08, 2014 9:43 am

I don't think incompetent is fair. Many board members are excellent in their own areas of expertise but collectively appear to lack imagination, creativity and a vision for the future.

We have been bumping along in a "routine" way for many years and I have been expecting a time to come when financial pressures force change.  Opportunities were there, especially in our Conference Premier seasons, to expand the fan base but the board / management lacked the attributes to make it happen in a sustainable way.

There is a great opportunity for someone with a few £million to take the club forward, however, it has to be the right person who will agree to sell their ownership to the fans so we can become a wholly owned Community Club.  The new owner(s) must be prepared to open up all aspects of the club to public scrutiny where there are many local people who have the acumen to make impartial critique of club activities. I have never been enthusiastic about Non-Executive Directors but in our situation a few "locals" may well have been beneficial to the current board.

As I understand the current situation Bath City FC is a privately owned club. Has any thought been given to a limited public share offer?  By limited I was thinking to offer first to local people AND to have a maximum allocation of shares per individual.  The board and management would then be answerable to someone other than themselves.

There are many avenues to explore BUT the board have to be prepared, as it now seems they are, to relinquish absolute control.
Beau Nash
Beau Nash

Posts : 1064
Join date : 2014-02-20
Location : Bath

Back to top Go down

Statement from the club - Page 2 Empty Re: Statement from the club

Post by Mcnulty on Sat Nov 08, 2014 10:03 am

Agree, incompetence is totally unfair. The majority of the current board work hard for the club and do the best they can with the resources available. You could also argue that many of them have saved the club by putting in substantial sums of money to maintain the current level of football the club is playing at. These are not super rich individuals but moderately well off people putting money in the club rather than spending it on themselves and their families.
I think the management made a big PR mistake by talking of the play offs before a ball was kicked in anger this year, expectations were set and when we capitulated in several early matches the fans quite rightly thought what on earth is going on. A more realistic ambition is finishing in the top ten.

Mcnulty

Posts : 97
Join date : 2014-02-25

Back to top Go down

Statement from the club - Page 2 Empty Re: Statement from the club

Post by 2weirdtown on Sat Nov 08, 2014 10:33 am

No board ever keeps everyone happy.  Declaring an ambition to make the play offs seems a reasonable ambition to me but obviously others disagree.

Another point raised about non-executive directors misses the fact there are 3 as far as I'm aware, including Andy Weeks who has worked wonders.

I think the real bind is that the directors have loaned to the club and I'm guessing any share capital raised would go to paying them off and not invested in the club.  They won't want to relinquish control in similar circumstances to todays opponents at Ebsfleet.  Here the club has been taken over by a sports company who got away with only paying 10% to creditors.
It's all about money and those griping about Howells and Britton, who after all took us from Southern League to BSP, are sidetracking the issue.
Just where is the money coming from to make the changes to the management?  I'm guessing the only answer is an investor buying the club lock stock etc with all the dangers that entails.
2weirdtown
2weirdtown

Posts : 711
Join date : 2014-02-20
Location : Bridport via East Twerton

Back to top Go down

Statement from the club - Page 2 Empty Re: Statement from the club

Post by 2weirdtown on Sat Nov 08, 2014 10:35 am

Mcnulty wrote:Agree, incompetence is totally unfair. The majority of the current board work hard for the club and do the best they can with the resources available. You could also argue that many of them have saved the club by putting in substantial sums of money to maintain the current level of football the club is playing at. These are not super rich individuals but moderately well off people putting money in the club rather than spending it on themselves and their families.
I think the management made a big PR mistake by talking of the play offs before a ball was kicked in anger this year, expectations were set and when we capitulated in several early matches the fans quite rightly thought what on earth is going on. A more realistic ambition is finishing in the top ten.

and I'm in awe of the amount of work that Paul Williams puts in at the club.
2weirdtown
2weirdtown

Posts : 711
Join date : 2014-02-20
Location : Bridport via East Twerton

Back to top Go down

Statement from the club - Page 2 Empty Re: Statement from the club

Post by Timbo_b-o-a on Sat Nov 08, 2014 11:13 am

2weirdtown wrote:
Mcnulty wrote:Agree, incompetence is totally unfair. The majority of the current board work hard for the club and do the best they can with the resources available. You could also argue that many of them have saved the club by putting in substantial sums of money to maintain the current level of football the club is playing at. These are not super rich individuals but moderately well off people putting money in the club rather than spending it on themselves and their families.

and I'm in awe of the amount of work that Paul Williams puts in at the club.

Quite right. Aren't these people who mow the pitch for free, help paint the stands and one remortgaged there house just to put in cash?

My only criticism would be the way they totally shunned the community ownership proposal, which now appears one of the best options of moving the club forward. The trouble is to capture the imagination of the public and launch such a scheme you'd want some positivity to broadcast which is difficult with such a malaise hanging around the club at the moment. Then again if we were riding high on a cup run or promotion surge the current situation might well carry on, so its difficult to ever find the right time.

I'd be deeply sceptical if we were to be bought as a whole by an individual as I've no doubt there first move would be to flog Twerton proclaiming its a necessity, move to Landsdown and therefore (for me) kill the club.
Timbo_b-o-a
Timbo_b-o-a

Posts : 84
Join date : 2014-07-14

Back to top Go down

Statement from the club - Page 2 Empty Re: Statement from the club

Post by comrade powell on Sat Nov 08, 2014 11:31 am

Timbo_b-o-a wrote:
My only criticism would be the way they totally shunned the community ownership proposal, which now appears one of the best options of moving the club forward.

I'll post my thoughts later on the board's statement (which I find alarming on so many different levels), but thought in the meantime it would be worth flagging up the statement from the 4 major shareholders made in June of last year...

The major shareholders of Bath City FC respond to the Supporters Society (30/6/13)

Following the presentation by the Bath City Supporters Society regarding community ownership to its membership last week the major shareholders of Bath City Football Club have published the following statement:

Following the general meeting of the Supporters Society earlier this week, we the undersigned, as major shareholders, loan creditors, and long term supporters of the Club, wish to express our concern and disappointment at the timing of the proposal to pursue the idea of community ownership of the Club. We feel that although some of the views expressed at the meeting were interesting, the presentation considered the benefits without ample discussion of the risks involved in this model of ownership, or any mention of the level of football envisaged.

The Club is not in the dire financial straits of most clubs which adopt this model as a last resort, and unlike these clubs, it retains the ownership of the ground. This has been vital in the negotiations towards achieving a new stadium, which will provide the Club with a sustainable future, with maximum community involvement, and the completion of the aims outlined in the strategy document.

These negotiations would be delayed and therefore threatened if there is any uncertainty, both inside and outside of the Club, and we believe it is in the best interests of the Club to continue along a path which is well underway. It should be remembered that the Board of Directors is just over one year into the three year strategy, which was presented to, discussed and adopted by shareholders at last year’s AGM. To start a new process at this time, that is both lengthy and uncertain, would not only undermine this plan, but may even threaten the future of the Club.

We all helped to found the society, and having been actively involved from the outset in the campaign to provide the Society its voice and ensure Bath City became and remains a fan owned Club, we believe the Board should be given support to continue the work that has been undertaken to deliver the aims of the strategy document within the timescale agreed, and confirm our backing in this resolve. Anything else can be considered once that timescale has elapsed.

Andrew Pierce
John Reynolds
Geoff Todd
Paul Williams


Last night's statement suggests that 'the best interests of the club' have not been best served by 'continuing along a path which is well underway'. The clock was ticking 17 months ago - it's taken all that time since to set the alarm...
comrade powell
comrade powell

Posts : 4985
Join date : 2014-01-27

Back to top Go down

Statement from the club - Page 2 Empty Re: Statement from the club

Post by City 'til we're relegated on Sat Nov 08, 2014 11:46 am

SOME POINTS ON THE LATEST STATEMENT

1. 'we asked the management to hit certain targets for the season using a younger squad with a smaller budget, and we believe that these targets have either been achieved, or are still achievable'

This read as slightly confusing at first but, it could just be the wording. We BELIEVE implies that they are not sure. Perhaps it should have read 'some of these targets have been achieved, whilst others are still achievable'.

So some targets have been achieved and others are yet to be achieved. Clearly reaching the 4th qualifying round of the FA Cup was a target successfully achieved. That could be understandable, in that we could have drawn far stronger teams, but if the board could have known in advance that all our ties would be against lower league opposition, I wonder if that target might have been raised.

Injuries occur every season and are part and parcel of the game. We should not budget/plan for a season with no injuries.

2. 'In the summer, we made an appeal for financial support to meet a projected shortfall for this season, whilst trying to maintain the Club at its current level, and with a few exceptions this appears to have been ignored.'

A fair point but, over the decades I have heard the club appealing for support so that the club can achieve success on many occasions. Though there are the few who will always try and support the club, the die-hards who turn up no matter how poor the form is, Football is a part of the entertainment industry. In the chicken and egg analogy, what came first - The support or the success, the answer, unlike in the chicken and egg,  the success comes first and the popular support follows.

Being a reasonably large City with a catchment area of around 100,000, for Bath City to capture the imagination of the sporting citizens, the club need to be achieving greater things than they have in the recent past, if they are to compete with alternative attractions and rise above the level of being a small club within the city, then there is a mountain of work to do and perhaps a mountain of money required.

3. 'if sufficient finance is not forthcoming from within the Club, we have reached the decision that we need to seek investment from outside or look to sell the Club and find new owners who possess the financial wherewithal to take the Club forwards, both as a business and on the football side.'

This is the major point of course. The club has a huge debt which is going nowhere, barring a good FA Cup run, which seems as remote as a lottery win. Looking for new owners with financial muscle is, in my mind, the only way to get us out of a downward spiral and set us on an upward course. The community owned club is an idea but, there is still the mountain of debt to be cleared, and then substantial investment needed to improve facilities/move ground and invest in the playing/management side to elevate the club to a point where the people of Bath sit up and take notice that something rather interesting and exciting is taking place on the football front. I fail to see how such substantial investment can come from the club being owned by the 400 or so regulars who turn up week in week out. The board are correct in that, the alternative is to drop down the pyramid into obscurity.

I wish the board every success in their quest to introduce investment/new owners.

I do not share the boards acceptance of the team management's performance. Watching Warrington last night beating Exeter City, I admire the gritty determination and teamwork that had been instilled into the team, and by their tough talking manager who was on the touchline driving the team to victory and seeming to want to kick every ball. We nearly were giant-killed at the first fence in our FA Cup run, nearly giant-killed at the second attempt, and finally giant-killed, third time unlucky. Not only giant-killed but slaughtered and humiliated by a team two divisions below us. We had been warned in the two preceding rounds but were still unable to rise to our superior league status. Then there is the league where we are performing at the lower end despite what I thought was a stronger squad. Great managers get their team to perform above themselves, whilst we seem to be performing below ourselves. Of course our management team is cheap, but is that false economy. When Paul Bodin was appointed we averaged 1,000 during his first season. If we doubled out gate we could add £80,000 to our income, let alone additional money that accompanying success might bring in. The manager needs to know that it is his neck on the block (as in most other clubs) and success withing the budget the minimum that is acceptable.

There have been so many false dawn for Bath City that I wonder whether the people of Bath are 'false dawn' weary. Every time that I have witnessed progress it has quickly been accompanied by failure and cut backs. The 2,000 people that we would like to have as regular fans need to have something to believe in, that the club is moving forward, that they are making things happen, that they are catching the attention, that they have confidence that success is building rather than one step forwards and two back.

Those are my thoughts.

City 'til we're relegated

Posts : 57
Join date : 2014-03-02

Back to top Go down

Statement from the club - Page 2 Empty Re: Statement from the club

Post by threeday week on Sat Nov 08, 2014 11:59 am

There is a great opportunity for someone with a few £million to take the club forward, however, it has to be the right person who will agree to sell their ownership to the fans so we can become a wholly owned Community Club.  The new owner(s) must be prepared to open up all aspects of the club to public scrutiny
frankly i wouldn,t expect anyone to come forward under those terms ,to misquote a famous wartime leader :
this may not be the end but it is sadly the beginning of the end

threeday week

Posts : 38
Join date : 2014-02-23

Back to top Go down

Statement from the club - Page 2 Empty Re: Statement from the club

Post by Beau Nash on Sat Nov 08, 2014 12:54 pm

2weirdtown wrote:...Another point raised about non-executive directors misses the fact there are 3 as far as I'm aware, including Andy Weeks who has worked wonders...

What I was thinking of is this:

A non-executive director (NED, also NXD) or outside director is a member of the board of directors of a company who does not form part of the executive management team. They are not employees of the company or affiliated with it in any other way and are differentiated from inside directors, who are members of the board.

NEDs are sometimes considered the same as an independent director, while other sources distinguish them from independent directors saying non-executive directors are allowed to hold shares in the company while independent directors are not.

NEDs have responsibilities in the following areas, according to the Higgs Report, commissioned by the British government, published in 2003:

Strategy: NEDs should constructively challenge and contribute to the development of strategy.
Performance: NEDs should scrutinise the performance of management in meeting agreed goals and objectives and monitoring and where necessary removing senior management, and in succession planning.
Risk: NEDs should satisfy themselves that financial information is accurate and that financial controls and systems of risk management are robust and defensible.
People: NEDs are responsible for determining appropriate levels of remuneration of executive directors and have a prime role in appointing and where necessary removing senior management, and in succession planning.

NEDs should also provide independent views on:

Resources
Appointments
Standards of conduct

NEDs are the custodians of the governance process. They are not involved in the day-to-day running of business but monitor the executive activity and contribute to the development of strategy.

Andy Weeks IS NOT a NED.


threeday week wrote:There is a great opportunity for someone with a few £million to take the club forward, however, it has to be the right person who will agree to sell their ownership to the fans so we can become a wholly owned Community Club.  The new owner(s) must be prepared to open up all aspects of the club to public scrutiny
frankly i wouldn,t expect anyone to come forward under those terms...


Agreed it will need a special person, someone with philanthropic values first and foremost but also a record of success in their own field.  I can think of two, one of whom I know well and is passionate about Bath City FC; both have wealth in the £hundreds of millions if not £billions.
Beau Nash
Beau Nash

Posts : 1064
Join date : 2014-02-20
Location : Bath

Back to top Go down

Statement from the club - Page 2 Empty Re: Statement from the club

Post by comrade powell on Sat Nov 08, 2014 1:19 pm

And who would they be?
comrade powell
comrade powell

Posts : 4985
Join date : 2014-01-27

Back to top Go down

Statement from the club - Page 2 Empty Re: Statement from the club

Post by Beau Nash on Sat Nov 08, 2014 2:44 pm

Unless the board are willing to give up control, nothing will change until the losses and overdraft force change; it looks like that time is fast approaching.

I expect negotiations are ongoing with at least one of my two if not both.
Beau Nash
Beau Nash

Posts : 1064
Join date : 2014-02-20
Location : Bath

Back to top Go down

Statement from the club - Page 2 Empty Re: Statement from the club

Post by comrade powell on Sat Nov 08, 2014 2:45 pm

Ah, it's a game, is it? Right, is one of them into cards?
comrade powell
comrade powell

Posts : 4985
Join date : 2014-01-27

Back to top Go down

Statement from the club - Page 2 Empty Re: Statement from the club

Post by pete mac on Sat Nov 08, 2014 3:05 pm

Grateful that Martin reminded us what the bulk of the Board - the 4 major shareholders- said 17 months ago. Very telling when put alongside what the Board are saying this week.

pete mac

Posts : 772
Join date : 2014-02-27

Back to top Go down

Statement from the club - Page 2 Empty Re: Statement from the club

Post by comrade powell on Sat Nov 08, 2014 3:33 pm

My initial thoughts...

However we also understand the frustration of our supporters following an inconsistent start to the season, but we would ask you all to get behind the team as we believe there is huge potential once we have a full squad to choose from, and still plenty to play for.
No surprises there, but the response from the board to the worst performance I can remember from a City team and the failure to bring in a potential windfall from a cup run, makes me wonder what depths we must reach on the pitch before any changes are made. Whether the board like it or not, the present arrangement is widely unpopular and will continue to provide ammunition to its critics.  

The background is though that finance remains a problem, both in getting through this season and beyond. Although the Club has seen much success in recent years, including two promotions and effectively playing at the highest level the Club had ever achieved, the fact remains that this was effectively financed by a few individuals, as the level of support required to compete at that level failed to materialise.
So no admittance that the policy of accepting large loans was the wrong one.

In the summer, we made an appeal for financial support to meet a projected shortfall for this season, whilst trying to maintain the Club at its current level, and with a few exceptions this appears to have been ignored.
Did the board honestly expect supporters, many of whom pump money into the club in other ways, to be able to afford to make significant donations in these times? Remember, supporters donate while directors make loans. Personally, I find the word 'ignored' pretty insensitive - Bath City have some wonderfully generous supporters who shouldn't be taken for granted.

Whilst we thank those who have made a contribution, it has been insufficient thus far to cover the shortfall and may result in difficult decisions having to be made later in the season.
And yet this shortfall would have been covered by the money Havant are raking in this afternoon. But it's preferable to blame tightfisted supporters for the shortfall rather than the management.

Therefore before we reach that point, if sufficient finance is not forthcoming from within the Club, we have reached the decision that we need to seek investment from outside or look to sell the Club and find new owners who possess the financial wherewithal to take the Club forwards, both as a business and on the football side.
So we haven't moved on from the situation when Geoff Todd announced he was standing down as chair and invited an investor to replace him. 4 years later, what progress has been made?

We have not reached this decision lightly, but the only other choice for the future would be huge cutbacks on the footballing side, which would see the Club tumble down the league pyramid, and this is not something we wish to see, and we do not believe our supporters would want this either.
Well there is another choice, but 4 of this board scuppered that idea 17 months ago.

It should be noted that the management team are aware of this statement, and fully supportive behind this decision.
Well turkeys don't usually vote for Christmas, do they? What isn't mentioned is if the board are fully united behind this statement and in agreement on the decisions which have been made to produce it.
comrade powell
comrade powell

Posts : 4985
Join date : 2014-01-27

Back to top Go down

Statement from the club - Page 2 Empty Re: Statement from the club

Post by Eddie Hitler on Sat Nov 08, 2014 4:17 pm

comrade powell wrote:...Therefore before we reach that point, if sufficient finance is not forthcoming from within the Club, we have reached the decision that we need to seek investment from outside or look to sell the Club and find new owners who possess the financial wherewithal to take the Club forwards, both as a business and on the football side.
So we haven't moved on from the situation when Geoff Todd announced he was standing down as chair and invited an investor to replace him. 4 years later, what progress has been made?...

Wouldn't disagree with anything there. The thing that stood out for me was that we've been looking for investors in the club for as long as I can remember, with absolutely no luck.
If we are relying on this as the only option, we can kiss goodbye to our club.
Eddie Hitler
Eddie Hitler

Posts : 163
Join date : 2014-02-21

Back to top Go down

Statement from the club - Page 2 Empty Re: Statement from the club

Post by Marc Monitor on Sat Nov 08, 2014 4:25 pm

2weirdtown wrote:I'm in awe of the amount of work that Paul Williams puts in at the club.

The only blot on his copy-book being that ridiculous statement last week blaming the players and absolving the the management completely.
Marc Monitor
Marc Monitor

Posts : 1658
Join date : 2014-02-20
Age : 53
Location : Within the sight of Twerton Park floodlights (Well, at the end of my street)

Back to top Go down

Statement from the club - Page 2 Empty Re: Statement from the club

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 2 of 5 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum