City v. Havant

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Post by Jon_BOA on Tue Aug 26, 2014 10:30 am

"We were recently debating the pros and cons of players giving each other rollickings during games. The point made to me was that it kept players on their toes. Maybe, but I'm even less convinced after some of the exchanges witnessed yesterday."

I agree completely, near the end Slocombe and Mellor had a proper slanging match as Jason didn't threw the ball to him properly (think it might have actually gone to a H&W player) and Slocombe tore a strip of him, and I was standing agahst thinking that as Mellor's confidence was clearly low after his two howlers, screaming at him was far from helpful.

Can't really add more to everyone's comments on how poor we have been in these 4 games, I am starting to feel sorry for Hemmings as while I don't think he's much use, we don't play in any sort of style that helps him, therefore making him look even worse than he is.

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Post by Hughesy on Tue Aug 26, 2014 11:19 am

I watched the game yesterday and in my eyes we have a lot of quality players in the starting 11 and on the bench, but I'm looking at the lads on the pitch and we don't seem to know what we're doing, we changed formations about 5 times, we can't string two passes together and it looks to me they just get sent out without much instructions and just hope for the best. I think the club needs a fresh start and a philosophy and a style of football so the lads can strive to be a good side rather than just a side who goes out and hopes for the best.

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Post by Dodgycarpet on Tue Aug 26, 2014 11:40 am

you notice in the premier league players rarely shout at each other - almost like they don't need to; that they have confidence that the other guy knows he's made a mistake and doesn't need telling. I guess things can often look similar but the reason behind it be very different - ie not shouting because you do not care is not the same as because you have confidence in your teammate!
Anyone who has played at any level including bath & district & above knows that different personalities react differently to being shouted/moaned at - but mostly people play worse if they play with fear (that they will be shouted at!)

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Post by stillmanjunior on Tue Aug 26, 2014 12:12 pm

The retaining possession is the top of a long list of bugbears for me this season. We give the ball away so cheaply and there's no real penetration, a lack of killer passes through a defence. It starts from the back, if Mellor could kick he would be in the Football League in my opinion as his handling is near faultless and he commands his box well. Ridiculous midjudgements for both goals yesterday but these are rare, and he made other saves when he was left exposed. It's not his fault we lost.

A lot of shouting at someone is sheer frustration. I personally do everything to not do it, including at officials when I'm playing, but in the heat of the moment it will happen. I don't play better if shouted at, I'm worse and just end up hoofing the ball away rather than look for a pass.

But back to the possession thing, we missed Artus yesterday but he can't do it all on his own. Maybe we just need an experienced head out there in midfield who can get his foot on the ball and knock it around, break up play etc. We don't have a bad set of players and obviously the management have to take some of the blame because the performances haven't been up to scratch, but some of the individual errors being made are ridiculous. The two goals we conceded were easily avoidable but Havant should have had more, we had chances ourselves and it was a massive relief to get that elusive goal, but unless we stop giving the ball away constantly we'll be embroiled in a battle at the bottom. I'm pretty keen for us to get out of this dull league, but going the other way isn't top of my priorities...
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Post by Marc Monitor on Tue Aug 26, 2014 12:34 pm

comrade powell wrote:The only thing I disagree on is the marked improvement you mentioned in the 2nd half. Yes, we looked more effective going forward and well done to Stearn for making things happen. However, even a limited side like Havant looked like they were playing within themselves and yet looked capable of picking us off at will.

Yes, to be honest, I was debating whether they had taken the foot off the pedal when they went 2-0 up. All I know is that, if I eradicated the memory of the first half, I quite enjoyed much of the second half as a game.

As far as the shouting is concerned, I think that, when you have a captain like Gallinagh who was playing like a zombie and not contributing at all, someone like Simpson will and should step in. Stearn is a chippy bugger at the best of times, it is part and parcel of his game and, to be honest, the team needed the bollocking he gave them at the time. One of the main people he was having a go at was Adelsbury but I think that that was in reaction to Adelsbury having a go at him for misplacing a pass. If I remember rightly, it was a good idea that just didn't work out, probably because of the conditions as much as anything else. I would rather have someone who is willing to try things and fail than those who won't take a risk. There were too many of the latter yesterday. Watkins became much bolder when Stearn came on (possibly because he sees him as a rival?) and Pratt and Stearn worked together well. Stearn also had a go at Bowman for not overlapping quick enough to be passed to. That I am not so happy about. Bowman is a young lad with lots of promise and needs confidence. However, he was put in a four and, perhaps, didn't feel as confident at pushing on. As far as Mellor and Slocombe was concerned, Mellor had a go at Slocombe first as he obviously felt that his rubbish throw was the latter's fault. At the end of the day, a confident, unconfused and winning team will not be having a go at each other. Some still will - Stearn - but not as many as yesterday. I have heard that Bowman doesn't enjoy playing with Stearn - possibly due to the shellackings he receives - but they are both in the team so this is where man-management comes in. Bowman needs his confidence boosted (for instance, not being substituted when he is one of the most effective players) and an arm around the shoulder, Stearn needs to be subtly told to wind his neck in a bit especially with players that he must recognise as gifted and they need to have highlighted that they both bring out good in each other.

By the way, I think that this experiment with 5 at the back is to give Bowman more of a chance to get forward but, as I remember, he did this well enough in a back 4 last season and Ball isn't a wing-back so we only need Bowman to do it. Also on tactical matters, I agree with SJ about our midfield in that, while we are talking about the positions around the edge such as defence, wings and striker, the middle is very lightweight. What we need is a midfielder who will get the ball, put his foot on it, possibly even slowing the ball down when needs be and distributing it. Aside from retaking possession, it would also stop Pratt (and Stearn when he is on) having to drop back so much to get the ball. I would much rather see them both in the defence's faces, making them play the ball before they want to. Pratt already does this a lot and almost got a goal from a charge-down on the keeper but I want to see the opposition's defence rattled and not settled on the ball especially when, if they are, they can launch it which, with our lack of height, we can do without.

As has been said before, we have played this style really successfully before and it had got us results. Why we can't buy the players for it and keep to it, I don't know. I mean, bless him, I would love to see Hemmings score but he looks like a square peg in a team of round holes at the moment.
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Post by Marc Monitor on Tue Aug 26, 2014 12:39 pm

stillmanjunior wrote:Ridiculous midjudgements for both goals yesterday but these are rare, and he made other saves when he was left exposed. It's not his fault we lost.

Unfortunately, yesterday it was. Partly due to Gallinagh with the first goal but, with the second, he was too far off his line again. The conditions didn't help but still it was a misjudgement on his part. I agree that Mellor is a great keeper for us and stopped us form conceding more but, at the end of the day, he had a couple of disasters and, without them, it would have been 1-0 as the strikers did their job in the second half. At the end of the day, everyone is allowed one terrible game and, hopefully, that is it for Mellor this season. However, he has to take responsibility for those goals, put them behind him and push on. I am sure he will.
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Post by 2weirdtown on Tue Aug 26, 2014 12:52 pm

Re the midfield, didn't we just re-sign Joe Burnell? He was on the teamsheet as a sub so why not used?
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Post by Marc Monitor on Tue Aug 26, 2014 12:55 pm

I also noticed yesterday that we had no sub keeper but Rollo was on the bench. Should we be worried or is Adlebury now the back-up keeper?
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Post by BenE on Tue Aug 26, 2014 1:26 pm

To be fair - in the first half conditions were terrible. Absolutely anything can happen so the first goal could be excused. But when we got the goal it all went flat and indeed the internal arguing increased. I do not understand what happened.

Mind you the Lino stopped three good moves with his offside flag in succession. What was the view of those in line with play? He seemed to favour the defence to me.
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Post by Mark Tanner on Tue Aug 26, 2014 1:30 pm

My latest effort at reporting is now online:

www.mtannersports.com

Really didn't want to write that one! Nothing really to say except for I'm sure by the end of the week I'll be considering the Boreham Wood coach more and more. Really want to see our first win of the season, whenever that will be!
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Post by Jon_BOA on Tue Aug 26, 2014 1:32 pm

Marc Monitor wrote:I also noticed yesterday that we had no sub keeper but Rollo was on the bench. Should we be worried or is Adlebury now the back-up keeper?

We haven't had a keeper on the bench since Garner left, if Mellor is injured I guess we go down the loan route again, if he's sent off, I assume we go with whoever the tallest is on the pitch at the time!

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Post by Beau Nash on Tue Aug 26, 2014 1:34 pm

Sunday 26 August, Tweet from: Jason Mellor @JasonMellor1  
Got to apologise now to the fans and more importantly the lads. Simply not good enough. Last said of it and forget it and move on
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Post by Marc Monitor on Tue Aug 26, 2014 2:07 pm

Good for him. That is exactly how I would want him to respond.
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Post by 2weirdtown on Tue Aug 26, 2014 2:24 pm

BenE wrote:
Mind you the Lino stopped three good moves with his offside flag in succession. What was the view of those in line with play? He seemed to favour the defence to me.

I was right in line and, let's just say they could easily have gone the other way.
Given that non league clubs have a constant uphill struggle to attract paying customers you'd think a directive would go out to favour attacking, ie, attractive football.
Yesterday was was just the kind of event to justify the replica shirt/stay in the pub and watch the Premiership brigade. Awful weather, pub league defending, no PA system and a torrent flowing down the terraces in the pop side.
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Post by Peteboa on Tue Aug 26, 2014 2:51 pm

Thanks for the detailed analysis stripes.

Re the management: there have been a couple of points in recent seasons where a change could and probably should have been made. I don't think we have reached that point yet..it's clearly too early in the season and important to remember we finished last season strongly. If this disastrous start continues thought and we are without a win in ten say, then they just have to go.

Re the shouting and squabbling: It all depends on situation. If a player gets an earful for lack of application ie: not tracking back, marking etc then I'm all for it. But for making an honest mistake like misplacing a pass then its not cool and can damage team spirit for sure
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Post by bonzodog on Tue Aug 26, 2014 3:04 pm

Peteboa wrote:
Re the management: there have been a couple of points in recent seasons where a change could and probably should have been made. I don't think we have reached that point yet..it's clearly too early in the season and important to remember we finished last season strongly. If this disastrous start continues thought and we are without a win in ten say, then they just have to go.

Thats the problem Peteboa, although its more than a couple. Time and time again, we've seen odd substitutions, strange signings, Hemmings the most recent one and tactics that wouldn't be seen on the fields of Lansdown. We have a squad of talented players (almost Very Happy ) yet they play as if they don't know each other.

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Post by Marc Monitor on Tue Aug 26, 2014 3:25 pm

After their reasonable substitutions yesterday at half-time, I was almost inclined to give them the complete benefit of the doubt but the ludicrous nature of the substitutions 10 minutes before the end frustrated me even more.
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Post by cannonball on Tue Aug 26, 2014 9:13 pm

Although I wasn't at the game yesterday but have watched the other abysmal displays, I think the remaining supporters/fans have got to the stage now where they feel almost paralysed into acceptance of what is going on. No use making any noise or complaining as nothing ever changes whatever is served up each week.....and gradually another 10, 20 or 30 decide not to bother again and the habit is broken.

I accept fully that we finished well last season and I for one thought the gloomy times were over, especially when we signed Artus to replace a fading Connelly and secured Walsh on the back of some fine performances last season. However, Walsh turned up patently not anywhere near as fit as he was last term and this seemed to set the tone for the defence when he wasn't selected at Concord and we went with short defenders who struggled with no 'big man' next to them. Now of course he is out for the majority of the season and I wouldn't wish that on any Bath City player.

The squad on paper in my opinion generally is not that bad at all - Adie Britton has gone on record to say so and that we were now out of the downward spiral caused by Conference Premier relegation - how wrong could he have been as this seasons performances so far - and from what I have been told about yesterday - have been as bad as I have seen from a Bath City side since the dark days of the early 1970's.

Where is it going wrong? Lee Howells has said in an interview that he just doesn't know....does Adie Britton know? If so can he do something to arrest the situation and tell the dwindling supporters that it will be turned round? Is it muddled or poor coaching/strategy/fitness or - dare I say it - players not happy with things behind the scenes due to odd team selections/substitutions?  Opposing teams come and play us and very often their players are bright, quick, strong and mobile, something we often appear to be lacking in many departments.

There is easily still time to turn this around but I do worry about the very one paced, lightweight nature of the midfield - the talented Artus excluded from that comment - the lack of real consistent width to stretch teams out at home and the very fragile defence who just don't put there hands up and take control of situations. Allen & Adlesbury just do not influence games enough on their own to make the difference good midfield players should do - and if they do its done slowly and not with any conviction - and possession of the ball is lost very easily which then puts the defence under severe pressure time and again.....no wonder they are so jittery.

Watkins & Pratt play much too far apart most of the time and poor Stearn doesn't know what is expected of him anymore and unless he is on the right wing - which is his natural position - he is just a pale shadow of this hungry, enthusiastic, goal scoring entertainer he was when he joined us - of course he is not and never will be 'perfect(!)' because of the selfish streak in his character, but what have the coaching set up done to him for Gods sake....this is non-league not the Premiership where players quite rightly need to be all things to all men 100% of the time! Players at this level will not be good at everything so encourage them to do what they ARE good at and build your team around them with some workhorses and tough defenders and play a system that suits your strengths.

In IMHO if we do not get at least a win in the next 2 games, the Directors really will have to sit down and take stock of all this.....and go back to 'directing' the way the club needs to go once more because Bath City seems to me to be withering away by the day and that makes me very sad indeed.
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Post by Marc Monitor on Tue Aug 26, 2014 9:21 pm

Won't disagree with anything there. You are right that that Stearn's best position is on the right wing (or on the right hand side of a front 3).
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Post by Micawber on Tue Aug 26, 2014 9:28 pm

I agree completely with your post Cannonball. I think you have summed up perfectly the feelings of many of the long time supporters of the club.

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Post by Midsomer-steve on Wed Aug 27, 2014 2:03 am

From Cannonball's posting - 'Where is it going wrong? Lee Howells has said in an interview that he just doesn't know....does Adie Britton know?'

That says it all - they have both got to relinquish their positions in the team's management - NOW, BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE.
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Post by stillmanjunior on Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:52 am

Who would you bring in the replace them, Steve?
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Post by BenE on Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:22 am

Personally I would not be encouraged by Rollo - despite the great servant to the club that he has been. In my opinion he is even more conservative than either Adie or Archie.
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Post by Marc Monitor on Wed Aug 27, 2014 10:46 am

That's interesting, Ben. Where do you get that from?

It appears we are hamstrung presently. Adie and Lee are free so the club obviously is looking at a large increase in any wages unless they can (a) find someone else to work for free (b) promote someone already in the club.

(a) is unlikely (although I can think of about 500 people who may fancy it) unless it were to be an ex-player - a Scott Partridge or someone - or someone who has been part of the coaching set-up previously. For the former, I can't think of anyone who fits the frame. Are there any ex-players or ex-coaching staff who are currently coaching at a lower level who may fit the bill? The issue with that, of course, is that they are unproven unless someone has really stood out. Mind you, that is often the issue with bringing in new coaches at any level and it is something that even the top clubs have benefitted from. However, they usually have had club directors and chair who will put in time and effort looking fair and wide scrutinising potential managers. For obvious reasons, we haven't the same.

(b) is very limited. We have Rollo, Freegard who I know nothing about as a coach or even a player (waaay before my time) or Billy Clark. Actually, I would be interested to know what people feel about the latter. He holds a UEFA A coaching licence and has been part of the Rovers set-up. There have been quite a few good players coming through from the Academy. However, it is, again, a question of how the finances would work out and, as I say, this is where the club is hamstrung especially as our finances are strapped as it is.

The other possibility is that Britton and Howells' roles aren't sharply defined enough. The lack of consistency in formations, tactics and substitutions that we even suffered in a pre-season that, in retrospect, flattered to deceive can be seen as indicative of two people making conflicting decisions. What is possibly the best move is that the club can make it clear who is picking the team, tactics and formation, the other person is either moved out of the club or, at least, into the stands and the person left has Rollo and Freegard as coaches.
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Post by Hughesy on Wed Aug 27, 2014 11:36 am

Craig laird ex Weston manager. Got Weston to 7th place finish season before last on one of the lowest budgets in the league and playing an attractive style of football . I know this because I'm a bath fan but have been to a number of Weston games when we have been away from home


Last edited by Hughesy on Wed Aug 27, 2014 11:37 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Spelling)

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