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Post by 2weirdtown on Fri Mar 22, 2019 7:12 pm

It's too quiet on here - we must be doing OK.
I read an interview in 'i' newspaper yesterday with Tim Flowers, manager of Solihull Moors who are currently 2nd in the National League Premier. The extract below was particularly interesting as City try to play a passing game - 'pretty football' as it were - and I wonder how we would fare in a more physical league. I recall that in our first season last time up, when we did OK, we got nothing at all out of physical (but mediocre) sides like Wrexham and Stockport.
There's a link to the full article below the extract.

Playing unashamedly physical and direct football, Moors have taken the division by storm – and reached the FA Cup second round for just the second time in their short history.
“You look at clubs that do well, and how they do well. What sort of style of football do they implement, and what sort of personnel do they bring in? I looked at it, and for me, this division and the one above, is still very much about power. “Lots of teams do try to play, and that’s their prerogative, but I look at Lincoln, who are sitting pretty at the top of League Two, and they are big, powerful, well-organised, and excellent at restarts. They know exactly what they’re doing in and out of possession. That’s how we’ve tried to go,” explains Flowers.
“It’s very difficult to pretty your way out of this division. It’s very difficult to play through the thirds because people just run straight over the top of you. If you haven’t got good players on good money you can get badly found out by doing it, so we try to get the ball forward to big, mobile strikers and then get bodies up to support quickly.”

Read more at: https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/tim-flowers-solihull-moors-manager-national-league-surprise-package-interview/
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Post by Luton Roman on Fri Mar 22, 2019 8:48 pm

Yes I read that too. JG is clever and pragmatic and I'm sure has thoughts already about the type of players needed. Defensively we might cope with little addition but certainly would need additional physicality and firepower up front.

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Post by tovid on Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:05 pm

I am pretty certain that Jerry Gill will never play that way. 

I think that it was the second season when we were steamrollered by big physical teams. We had very little muscle in midfield and not enough quality to overcome it and as you say the warning signs were there in the first season.

You need physicality no matter what way you play and we now have players like Joe Frankie Batten Riggy or indeed Brunty who can also play a bit..
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Post by Dodgycarpet on Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:38 pm

If we get promoted and especially if Wrexham and orient go up, there's no clubs in that division that would attract bigger crowds! It would be another £100,000 a year loss again.

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Post by 2weirdtown on Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:52 pm

That's my main concern really. It's why I've always hoped for a good FA cup run over promotion so if we do go up there should be some money for it. I guess if we go up this season they'll just have to give it a go with those we've got.
Having said that, I presume the players would want better money?
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Post by comrade powell on Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:59 pm

Dodgycarpet wrote:If we get promoted and especially if Wrexham and orient go up, there's no clubs in that division that would attract bigger crowds!

I guess Notts County would have a large following and Yeovil would bring a few. And would a promoted Torquay lose a significant number of that 1450?
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Post by SteveBradley on Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:56 pm

Dodgycarpet wrote:If we get promoted and especially if Wrexham and orient go up, there's no clubs in that division that would attract bigger crowds! It would be another £100,000 a year loss again.

I think that's a defeatist attitude though DC.

We're a very different club now than we were then. We're better run, our crowds are bigger, and we're bringing in more revenue. Even the vibe around the club is markedly different now, compared to the discontent and divisiveness back then.

I therefore don't think we can just assume the outcome of playing at a higher level now would be the same as it was in 2012. Part of the whole community ownership idea was to build the foundations to ensure we could sustain ourselves at a hugher level. We're not there yet, but we've definitely started the journey



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Post by Dodgycarpet on Thu Mar 28, 2019 8:16 am

We lost over a £100,000 a year each of those two seasons. I can't see it being too different; better maybe but still a large loss - if you do some numbers on a napkin or fag packet you start to get an idea. Revenue is up but so are costs. Now I never said it was wrong, it's just an observation, but a question for the board around budgeting. I would have asked it but was away for the EGM.

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Post by OliverH on Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:19 pm

I'd say it's realistic rather than defeatist, although without getting a clearer picture from the club of how the business and finances are developing, it's difficult to judge. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to be shown that we can afford to go up and really compete! But it will be so important to be transparent with members and set expectations properly if that happens.
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Post by SASCHA on Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:28 pm

comrade powell wrote:
Dodgycarpet wrote:If we get promoted and especially if Wrexham and orient go up, there's no clubs in that division that would attract bigger crowds!

I guess Notts County would have a large following and Yeovil would bring a few. And would a promoted Torquay lose a significant number of that 1450?

Hopefully Torquay would indeed lose a significant number from what they brought a few months back.
Reason being is that they were given too many tickets and were therefore allowed into the area beyond the black railings to right of the goal.
This is why the stewards were unable to properly control them. A very poor decision by the club.
The same thing happened some ten or twelve years ago against Torquay in the cup and yet this was completely overlooked.

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Post by comrade powell on Thu Mar 28, 2019 6:43 pm

I can't speak about the lessons learnt from Torquay's visit in the cup but rest assured that there was a full review of January's match. Following that the Freeview Corner of the ground has had high fencing erected and I don't think you will see any Woking fans in that 'sterile area' on Saturday.
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Post by Midsomer-steve on Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:14 am

As the subject has been raised I cannot resist making a comment.
Like us all, I was disgusted at the antics of the young and not so young hooligans in the Torquay 'fans' that day. To be fair to that Club they openly disown these sub-humans. They are banned from their home games but cannot stop them going to away venues. I am one of those who do not generally agree with crowd segregation - I think it incites trouble rather than deters it; but I think that each game. for which there is a large away following expected at TP, should be segregated, IF those fans have a bad history. Therefore it was right to keep the Torquay fans apart from ours. I am surprised that Woking are going to treated similarly though. To my knowledge they have caused no trouble in the ground, in our bar or in pubs, or on the streets before or after a match. Indeed, we wandered up and down their terraces at their place and they seemed to take defeat well that day.
By the way, as they are going to be 'caged in' at the Bristol end, I hope the additional MoBeQue food outlet will be in use for them, only I have not read anything about it.
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Post by SteveS on Fri Mar 29, 2019 9:26 am

Since community ownership more people have come forward to help, which is obviously good, but there is still a need for a lot more. The majority of the work is still done by the same core of people and that has to change if supporters want the club to be promoted and move forward. It is no good standing back and waiting for someone else to do it.
A simple example is the leafleting campaign to advertise the last 2 home games. For the Chippenham and family day games I did around 700 leaflets each time in Upper Weston. This time I don't have so much time but can do some. It will take about an hour to do 100 if you are reasonable mobile, all you need to do is call in the office tomorrow and make sure you leave your details with Carol or speak to Jon Bickley.
Also both the Supporters Club and Society are always looking for more people to help and serve on the committees. The Society elections will be coming up in June and any member can stand for election.

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Post by OliverH on Fri Mar 29, 2019 9:39 am

Well said Steve
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Post by Jon_BOA on Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:51 am

Am I the only one who's honestly not arsed if we get promoted or not?

Note, this is not to say I don't want us to do well etc., and I'd obviously be delighted with promotion, but my main concern, and the reason I supported the Bid/bought shares etc., is to ensure there is a team to watch and to stabilise the club. If there's a club playing Conference South (or whatever it will be called by then) when I'm 70 I'll be happy with that.

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Post by stillmanjunior on Fri Mar 29, 2019 12:12 pm

I personally think we're in much better shape, on and off the pitch, when we last won promotion. That basically took us by surprise. We were never in a position to win, or even challenge, for the league title. It was only our third season at that level, too, this is our seventh back. I know when John and Adie took over they said "Conference in five years" but it's the sort of line loads of managers give. When it happened I don't think Adie could quite believe it. I felt like we'd overachieved, we had a good end to the season and ground out so many games. I can't think of many memorable ones in the run-in, bar the play-offs themselves. Even then I have never watched back highlights of the Woking game.

Now, there's so much more going on off the pitch. There's more unity. Crowds are miles better. The league itself is stronger, standard far higher (most of the time!)

I really wanted us up last time because I didn't think we'd challenge the year after. I thought it could be our only chance, and we were thirteen years away from the Conference. I just wanted a year at least away from going on the M25 every other week! If we'd missed out then and this was our twelfth successive season at this level, without making play-offs, I think we would have lost a few fans. This time, the momentum is back with us and I feel if we did miss out, we'd challenge again next year. Interest has soared.

So do I want us up? Of course. Better football again, more exposure, only one game needed to win in the FA Cup to reach that 1st round and we managed 10th last time in our first season (something Adie doesn't get anywhere near enough credit for), no reason why we wouldn't put up a decent show. If we missed out, I wouldn't be as gutted as I would have in 2010. Well, unless it's on penalties or something crushing.
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Post by Mark Tanner on Fri Mar 29, 2019 12:20 pm

I think if we do get promoted then it is a perfect opportunity to open up a frank and honest consultation with the share holders.

In this I mean producing items to vote on such as budget potentially -

For example option A ave crowd of 700 give Jerry X - Option B ave crowd 1000 give Jerry Y and Option C ave 1200 gives Jerry Z of a budget for players.

Then the share holders will get to vote on a sustainable way forward for the club - having seen an detailed analysis on how our last two years in the 'Prem' went - so that we can learn from our mistakes and how our choices can impact the club moving forward.

It will then also be our fault if things don't go well!

This thought process maybe too liberal but it will be interesting to see what the board do - should we go up.

We elected the board and must trust in their judgement at the end of the day, we have great people in the right places. They will be looking out in the best interest of Bath City FC and it's long term survival.
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Post by daven on Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:28 pm

I will take promotion if it comes, more coverage on TV and in papers and possibility of being live on BT Sport (presume extra income). Also am I right we would get money for getting promoted? If so does anyone know how much?

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Post by Luton Roman on Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:29 pm

I certainly aspire to and would take promotion, we support a team to be successful imo not stand still and simply survive though I accept that for some clubs that is a sole aim. I think City aim higher now. We are building momentum and probably not in the top 2 this year due to lack of that reliable 20 goal a year scorer. Fix that and next season we could fly. Don't seem to be any teams coming down or up with loads of money though who knows what Billericay could do. !

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Post by tovid on Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:36 pm

Dodgycarpet wrote:If we get promoted and especially if Wrexham and orient go up, there's no clubs in that division that would attract bigger crowds! It would be another £100,000 a year loss again.

I believe we lost over £250,000 in two seasons in the prem and the club debt hence went up over a million quid.

However since then we have continuously lost money season on season and this has been as much as £90,000 a season.

So it is not a choice between no losses and big losses.

It is big and bigger.

The community business plan does not depend on us getting promoted and I believe there is a better chance of achieving its aims if we aim to reduce expenditure not accept greater expenditure as would happen with promotion. We could try to cut our cloth to suit but I think the issue would be that we wouldn't be able to predict gates in the higher league.

This season has been extraordinary in terms of gates and lot of that deserves praise to the 1000BC team. I personally would like to solidify that over another season, but even then we wouldn't know how many more might turn up on a weekly basis in the higher league.

I'm sort of thinking out loud here. I started off the post intending to say I'd rather not get promoted but I've actually talked myself into thinking it would be really great.
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Post by Dusty Lynfield on Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:32 pm

I remember at the time of the Bid, there was a suggestion that rather than linking budget to a projected average gate, it was suggested that you could instead give a range of ticket prices / season tickets linked to a range of playing budgets. I would personally be open to such an approach.
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Post by LB on Fri Mar 29, 2019 9:56 pm

I think one of the problems in 2010 was that we got promoted almost by ‘accident’ and nobody really expected it or had prepared for it (I am not sure what that reminds me of...). In view of that the fact that we did so well in the first season was perhaps even more remarkable.

The point that tovid makes about the losses is a valid one - those in recent seasons haven’t been that much less really.

It is valid to ask what the club’s ambition is in terms of promotion, because in a way if they don’t want it then aiming for the play-off is a bit risky. On our day I think we are capable of beating anyone in this division so could find ourselves in a similar position to 2010.

It seems to me that with the increased gates and general interest in the club this would actually be a ggod time to get promotion and keep the momentum going, especially with the prospect of playing away from Twerton for at least a season.

Whatever happens, it is a nice discussion to be able to have.

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Post by Sir Ged Roddy on Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:16 pm

Jon_BOA wrote:Am I the only one who's honestly not arsed if we get promoted or not?

Note, this is not to say I don't want us to do well etc., and I'd obviously be delighted with promotion, but my main concern, and the reason I supported the Bid/bought shares etc., is to ensure there is a team to watch and to stabilise the club. If there's a club playing Conference South (or whatever it will be called by then) when I'm 70 I'll be happy with that.

I agree, Jon-BOA. Stability and good playing are the most important aspects. If we go up, do we always have to be segregated, as we were at Barnet, and have ourselves physically checked by stewards? I'm not keen on a lot of the restrictions in the higher leagues (including the Football League), although it would be nice to go down to Y**vil next season! We might even do the b**tards over.

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