City v Chippenham

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Re: City v Chippenham

Post by Colin Voutt on Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:53 am


BenE wrote:

"Presumably Jones has been brought in for his pointing and shouting abilities because I am faster and I'm 60."

He needs to be helped to find a position with a race track bookmaker.

It is that or we make the position of Club Captain a non-playing one.

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Re: City v Chippenham

Post by westonpundit on Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:04 am

Come on there are still 15 points to play for in August alone so we need to get behind the team on Saturday versus Chelmsford. A win will bring about some much needed confidence across the team which can still deliver a reasonable start to the season when we look back in September.

We're all disappointed with the last two games after such a promising pre-season and no doubt none more so than the manager and players themselves. I'm sure Gary will address the issues for the weekend......so keep the faith and with our support get behind them for our first win of the season on Saturday.

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Re: City v Chippenham

Post by Colin Voutt on Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:29 am

westonpundit wrote:Come on there are still 15 points to play for in August alone so we need to get behind the team on Saturday versus Chelmsford. A win will bring about some much needed confidence across the team which can still deliver a reasonable start to the season when we look back in September.

We're all disappointed with the last two games after such a promising pre-season and no doubt none more so than the manager and players themselves. I'm sure Gary will address the issues for the weekend......so keep the faith and with our support get behind them for our first win of the season on Saturday.

Darren Jones hardly played in the pre-season!!!!

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Re: City v Chippenham

Post by 2weirdtown on Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:55 am

It was a long drive home last night.
Fair play to Chippenham, they played like a team. More worryingly, once again, we were a yard slower than the opposition who time and again got to the loose ball first.
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Re: City v Chippenham

Post by Roman Mike on Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:12 am

I suggest we also miss Chas (!) or a CDM to sit in front of the back 4. Ryan Case?
Agree with consensus re. Jones.
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Re: City v Chippenham

Post by danver on Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:15 am

Not much to be added to the above, except that I hope Gary is close enough friends with Darren Jones to be able to tell him he was rubbish tonight, both as defender and captain. He drained the confidence out of Jack Batten, who was unrecognisable as the same player who grew in stature with every game when playing alongside Axel last season. Lemonheigh-Evans looks like a good signing, struggling for positives other than that.

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Re: City v Chippenham

Post by cbtroman on Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:59 pm

Can't see how last night was anything else other than purely psychological. Perhaps the change of captain was the reason because it was totally and utterly dire from start to finish and beyond bad. Conceding within only 4 minutes as well!

Don't think anyone is serious about sacking at this stage but I won't be back if that kind of "performance" is repeated. Losing is one thing but in that manner?

The players/managers have the ability, they won 5/7 friendlies (albeit can't read too much in to them) and many have football league experience so they don't turn into bad players overnight.

But it was unacceptable and I felt I just threw away £13 last night. Chippenham deserve credit but we pressed the self destruct button big time

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Re: City v Chippenham

Post by BenE on Wed Aug 09, 2017 1:27 pm

I saw one of John Reynolds men going to Twerton this morning. Presumably he going to build a centre half out of lumber that has more mobility than Darren Jones.
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Re: City v Chippenham

Post by BenE on Wed Aug 09, 2017 1:30 pm

cbtroman wrote: Losing is one thing but in that manner?

Quite agree. There are simply no excuses. Maybe we will games in August, and I will be fully behind the team in any game it plays, but we look under-prepared at the moment.
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Re: City v Chippenham

Post by stillmanjunior on Wed Aug 09, 2017 1:39 pm

No change here - the team puts in a poor performance and almost the entire blame is centred on one person. Jones was well off the pace but as were several others.

Still, takes the heat off Marvin Morgan I guess.

Don't agree with the theory of changing the captaincy being a reason. In 2014/15 we started with 3-0 and 4-0 defeats with Andy Gallinagh as captain (in fact he scored an own goal in the latter), yet within six months he still had the armband as we reached an FA Trophy QF. Don't recall him suddenly changing his approach.

Though if people would have been critical of him I'm sure I would have been backing him up relentlessly as he's one of the nicest people I've met.
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Re: City v Chippenham

Post by cbtroman on Wed Aug 09, 2017 1:53 pm

stillmanjunior wrote:No change here - the team puts in a poor performance and almost the entire blame is centred on one person.

I wouldn't let the other 10 players off the hook that easy at all! The whole team were shambolic last night

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Re: City v Chippenham

Post by sned on Wed Aug 09, 2017 2:20 pm

Incredibly we're only 3rd from bottom. Chelmsford are 2nd after winning both so far. Will be a real test on Saturday.

Motm from yesterday probably Lemonheigh-Evans.

Assuming Compton is injured still. Him and cafer were awaiting international clearance but cafer was on the bench last night. Wonder what he'll bring to the team.

Need McCootie back to hassle and harry.

I agree that Lucas and Jarvis won't do well playing together.

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Re: City v Chippenham

Post by BenE on Wed Aug 09, 2017 3:19 pm

stillmanjunior wrote:No change here - the team puts in a poor performance and almost the entire blame is centred on one person. Jones was well off the pace but as were several others.

You are misconstruing the point. Yes they were all sh1te. But only one is out of condition. Possibly (hopefully) he will get fit over the coming months but I personally do not see how you can put him straight into the starting line up.
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Re: City v Chippenham

Post by wr_2 on Wed Aug 09, 2017 3:37 pm

I reckon Batten playing left centre-back (instead of right) caused a few problems. Last season he was usually played as right centre-back with Andresson/Ball/Monthe to his left, and although switching him to the left seems minor it meant he lacked confidence and wasn't used to the positioning at all. As a result, his marking was poor on both the first 2 goals and he often drifted out to the right side, which then disrupts the whole defence. Solution to this is maybe playing Batten+Ball or waiting until Batten's more able to play on the left of a centre-back pairing.

Both him and Jones (who still seems to be in pre-season form) can improve. Straker was left with a lot to do and can see why his old clubs played him on the left wing a lot - definitely an option. Also hoping to see 3 in midfield like a lot of others are, with Case or Rigg. That could hopefully connect the back 4 with Artus and Murphy more, as Murphy especially struggles to get involved in open play.

However, no reason to panic if Chelmsford win on Saturday. They've lost their top scorer but seem to have invested heavily, and they're the better team on paper. The games against Truro/Havant will say a lot more about where City are than the Chelmsford game.

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Re: City v Chippenham

Post by Marc Monitor on Wed Aug 09, 2017 3:41 pm

Midsomer-steve wrote:I heard some pretty crude and vociferous comments tonight from the terraces before the game was not even nearly over and I am fairly certain that the players and management heard them too. It is not nice to be losing to a newly promoted team at home by the margin that we were, but it could just be that they are better than us, despite all our efforts on the night. The time to vent fans anger though is after the final whistle!

I disagree. After last Saturday and, by half-time, it was obvious that there was something rotten in the team and where to aim most of the blame was obvious. People have paid good money to support the team (and they would have, given anything approaching a half-decent performance) and they have every right to loudly criticise that shower of....well, you know, at pretty much any point last night. I have found that Bath City supporters, in the main, are very loyal, not quick to get on the backs of the team or target individual players and often applaud the team after a defeat if they have put in a decent performance and just have been beaten by the better team. That was not the case, last night. Don't get me wrong, Chippenham were the better team last night and looked pretty good especially going forward. However, they were helped by the complete ineptitude of most of our team.


Last edited by Marc Monitor on Wed Aug 09, 2017 3:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: City v Chippenham

Post by Marc Monitor on Wed Aug 09, 2017 3:46 pm

stillmanjunior wrote:No change here - the team puts in a poor performance and almost the entire blame is centred on one person. Jones was well off the pace but as were several others.

Not at all. As has been mentioned, no-one could think of a man of the match and the entire back four are being criticised mostly. Jones, however, is on a different level of lack of fitness and, seemingly, ability. It has been pointed out that Newport did better after he was suspended. I also don't like to see him shouting at others for his mistakes especially when those are younger and less experienced. It is dishonesty that I don't like to see in a player and seems a touch like bullying to me.

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Re: City v Chippenham

Post by stillmanjunior on Wed Aug 09, 2017 4:19 pm

The thing which hasn't been touched upon (as far as I'm aware) is our tendency to 'cave' in matches.

In the last three years, we've conceded four or more on eight separate occasions. Ok, one was that ridiculous game against Farnborough, but still. Five of the matches were at home.

I haven't got the goal times to hand, but from memory it mainly involves us conceding a couple in quick succession. Last night we undeservedly got back to 1-1, we should have done everything to keep it tight and protect what we had, then take our time to try and build. Instead, you could tell within a minute that it wasn't going to be 1-1 for very long as our concentration levels were non-existent. It shouldn't matter who the manager or captain is, as a footballer you should know how to do the basics. Clear your lines for a bit, be patient, don't try anything silly. Stop crosses, mark your men, track back. Things like that.

So instead of us thinking "right, we're 1-0 down. But there are still 86 minutes to go, I'm sure we could carve out a few openings" there's this "ahhhh, goal down already, people on our backs, we'd better equalise ASAP to prevent all that." More mistakes are made, crowd/teammates become more restless and it becomes calamitous. Especially when you're playing teams with lethal forwards, i.e. Maidenhead and Chippenham.

The last two times we've started with two losses we've scored 0 and 1 in those games. Well, we've already netted four, so if we can restrict teams to scoring just once we're going to stand a chance. We've got goals in us. It's just working out how to stop them going in at the other end.
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Re: City v Chippenham

Post by SteveS on Wed Aug 09, 2017 4:39 pm

Jones is taking the flak and it is clear he is not fit. I think he was missing for the first 2 or 3 friendly games and then played no more than half a game in the ones he did make an appearance. I did not see any of the friendlies but there were comments then about his lack fitness. When the season starts he plays 90 minutes in the opening games when we ship 8 goals against 2 promoted teams.
Clearly there is a problem but this is as much down to the manager for selecting him as the player. Hence as I said in my earlier post Owers needs to tell him to get fit and we will look at the situation again and that I hope Owers is not going to be bloody minded and continue selecting him.
If he starts on Saturday something is drastically wrong and I think the manager is clearly not basing his selection on the best options available but putting his feelings for certain players in front of the best interests of the team.
People will not pay £13 to watch the sort of display put on last night.

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Re: City v Chippenham

Post by Marc Monitor on Wed Aug 09, 2017 4:52 pm

stillmanjunior wrote:So instead of us thinking "right, we're 1-0 down. But there are still 86 minutes to go, I'm sure we could carve out a few openings" there's this "ahhhh, goal down already, people on our backs, we'd better equalise ASAP to prevent all that." More mistakes are made, crowd/teammates become more restless and it becomes calamitous. Especially when you're playing teams with lethal forwards, i.e. Maidenhead and Chippenham.

I was saying to a mate that I brought along last night that we can play good football but we panic dreadfully when we are on the back foot and, as you suggest, that was the case last night. We panicked, there was woeful passing and hoofing out of defence. We did actually calm down a bit but that was in the second half when the game was lost and Chippenham took their foot off the pedal.

The last two times we've started with two losses we've scored 0 and 1 in those games. Well, we've already netted four, so if we can restrict teams to scoring just once we're going to stand a chance. We've got goals in us. It's just working out how to stop them going in at the other end.

That is the truism from the last two games. When you score 4 in 2 games, the forwards are quite within their rights to point at the defence and, to an extent, the midfield and say that they have done their bit. In all honesty, we weren't great going forward last night, the penalty was when Chippenham lost concentration for a bit and, obviously, we were never ahead at any point. however, I can't see much wrong in our option upfront (Marvin notwithstanding) and it all came from the back.
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Re: City v Chippenham

Post by Marc Monitor on Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:13 pm

SteveS wrote:Jones is taking the flak and it is clear he is not fit. I think he was missing for the first 2 or 3 friendly games and then played no more than half a game in the ones he did make an appearance. I did not see any of the friendlies but there were comments then about his lack fitness. When  the season starts he plays 90 minutes in the opening games when we ship 8 goals against 2 promoted teams.
Clearly there is a problem but this is as much down to the manager for selecting him as  the player. Hence as I said in my earlier post Owers needs to tell him to get fit and we will look at the situation again and that I hope Owers is not going to be bloody minded and continue selecting him.
If he starts on Saturday something is drastically wrong and I think the manager is clearly not basing his selection on the best options available but putting his feelings for certain players in front of the best interests of the team.
People will not pay £13 to watch the sort of display put on last night.

Actually, to be honest, the elephant in the room is that team selection has to be blamed. Could anyone who went on Saturday tell me whether Case was so bad that Batten had to come in for him rather than Jones (especially as Case seems to be able to score goals)? Welch-Hayes seems like a reasonable enough replacement for Artus. Southwood has had two friendlies and didn't really appear to be much at fault for all the goals even if his punching was a bit worrying.
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Re: City v Chippenham

Post by Midsomer-steve on Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:30 pm

Marc Monitor wrote:
Midsomer-steve wrote:I heard some pretty crude and vociferous comments tonight from the terraces before the game was not even nearly over and I am fairly certain that the players and management heard them too. It is not nice to be losing to a newly promoted team at home by the margin that we were, but it could just be that they are better than us, despite all our efforts on the night. The time to vent fans anger though is after the final whistle!

I disagree. After last Saturday and, by half-time, it was obvious that there was something rotten in the team and where to aim most of the blame was obvious. People have paid good money to support the team (and they would have, given anything approaching a half-decent performance) and they have every right to loudly criticise that shower of....well, you know, at pretty much any point last night. I have found that Bath City supporters, in the main, are very loyal, not quick to get on the backs of the team or target individual players and often applaud the team after a defeat if they have put in a decent performance and just have been beaten by the better team. That was not the case, last night. Don't get me wrong, Chippenham were the better team last night and looked pretty good especially going forward. However, they were helped by the complete ineptitude of most of our team.

I will stand by my view (highlighted), despite you disagreeing with me. Perhaps, in your experience of supporting your former Club, shouting abuse at players/management, whilst the game is still in progress, is common practise (i.e. in League matches), but I simply think that it is unfair to vent such anger until the match is over (and thus the team has no further chance of turning the scoreline around). When the game was over last night some of the players - even the management - applauded the fans. Quite rightly there was little response, so the disgust was shown then.
Refs and linos however..........
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Re: City v Chippenham

Post by Marc Monitor on Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:55 pm

I am not sure that supporting my former League club has much to do with it - although they were particularly fickle and quick to turn on a player. I think that, in circumstances like last night, when the game is lost so far from the end and the performance so appalling, the paying supporters are within their rights to show their dissatisfaction when they want. Using your phrase, the team had no further chance to turn the scoreline around on 60 minutes, if not at half-time, so that was a perfectly reasonable time to criticise them.

Don't get me wrong, I didn't barrack the team or the coaching staff last night and don't tend to at all. Indeed, I often leave the tea bar area when the shouting gets too much. That is not because I think that those guys should stop but I make the choice to move to the more sedate and urbane surroundings near the Mo-B-Q.

Have to disagree with abusing refs and linos though. I have, of course, expressed my dismay at a ref or lino's decision on occasion but continued abuse throughout the game isn't on. Refs and linos more often make good decisions than bad and the game couldn't be played without them. At this level, they are genuinely trying their best. Footballers make many more mistakes during games than refs or linos and we are far more forgiving of them.
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Re: City v Chippenham

Post by Midsomer-steve on Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:27 am

Marc Monitor wrote:I am not sure that supporting my former League club has much to do with it - although they were particularly fickle and quick to turn on a player. I think that, in circumstances like last night, when the game is lost so far from the end and the performance so appalling, the paying supporters are within their rights to show their dissatisfaction when they want. Using your phrase, the team had no further chance to turn the scoreline around on 60 minutes, if not at half-time, so that was a perfectly reasonable time to criticise them. Half an hour in football is a long time, so I remained hopeful, and wished to reserve condemnation until the 90th minute.

Don't get me wrong, I didn't barrack the team or the coaching staff last night and don't tend to at all. Indeed, I often leave the tea bar area when the shouting gets too much. That is not because I think that those guys should stop but I make the choice to move to the more sedate and urbane surroundings near the Mo-B-Q.

Have to disagree with abusing refs and linos though. I have, of course, expressed my dismay at a ref or lino's decision on occasion but continued abuse throughout the game isn't on. Refs and linos more often make good decisions than bad and the game couldn't be played without them. At this level, they are genuinely trying their best. I don't shout at them a lot, but I think most fans agree that there are quite a few 'officials' that spoil the game Footballers make many more mistakes during games than refs or linos and we are far more forgiving of them.
Unlike footballers, the officals make decisions either because they think they are right, or because they are too easily fooled by, shall we say, the more experienced player. In either case they need to return to 'referee school'. A player who is underperforming must, of course, be corrected by team management, or 'moved on'. I suppose I sometimes boil over after a succession of bad refereeing decisions because the men in black are more crucial than an individual player - the latter can be substituted, but the former cannot.

Its good to exchange viewpoints like this Mark. It would be rather boring if people all thought the same Smile See you on the terraces again soon - maybe for a chat over a pint.
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Jack Compton

Post by Bonker on Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:25 am

Does anyone have any idea why Jack Compton didn't feature on Tuesday?

I understand that he is fit but wasn't in the squad. He is a quality player with league experience and we could have done with him when things went pear shaped against Chippenham.

What's the point of signing somebody like Jack and then not including him?

Does Owers really know what he's doing??

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Re: City v Chippenham

Post by Luton Roman on Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:30 am

Big leap there Bonker, might be that international clearance still awaited?

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Re: City v Chippenham

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