Game off...again.

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Game off...again.

Post by Luton Roman on Sat Jan 02, 2016 8:51 am

Truro waterlogged according to club Facebook post.

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Re: Game off...again.

Post by Ashley on Sat Jan 02, 2016 9:11 am

No surprise, at least they let us know before BasBus appeared

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Re: Game off...again.

Post by comrade powell on Sat Jan 02, 2016 9:44 am

An opportune time to reopen the debate about 3G pitches. While I can appreciate the purists' concerns, Maidstone have shown that with the right installation the football does not suffer. Will be interesting to see what Sutton's is like when we go there.
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Re: Game off...again.

Post by 2weirdtown on Sat Jan 02, 2016 9:59 am

An opportunity for my annual beef about why can't the season be extended to allow these games to be played on a Saturday. That being the day supporters and, I'll bet, players would prefer. But of course, the lifeblood of the sport don't count for much do they?
If play offs have to be delayed, so be it. It's not as if they're played at Wembley.
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Re: Game off...again.

Post by stillmanjunior on Sat Jan 02, 2016 10:19 am

@comrade powell wrote:An opportune time to reopen the debate about 3G pitches. While I can appreciate the purists' concerns, Maidstone have shown that with the right installation the football does not suffer. Will be interesting to see what Sutton's is like when we go there.

Maidstone have to relay their pitch don't they? Sure I read something about it online or in the NLP. I guess we can ask them next week.

As I've said before I'm really not keen on them, this having played on them as well (neither was one of my knees). Sometimes you just have to accept that the conditions will take over and football has no chance of being played, but other occasions it really infuriates me. I mean, how come our game at Havant was off on Monday, yet Eastleigh and Portsmouth, not a million miles away, both managed to play? Are some clubs spending enough on their pitches, or is it simply location? Weston is off AGAIN today for example. Our home matches seem to only be waterlogged off if the rain is completely biblical, why does slight drizzle mean some clubs can't cope?

Yes, I know unless there's about 10 feet of snow you're not going to see a game on 3G postponed, but I'd be much happier to stick to grass, and I bet the vast majority of players would as well.
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Re: Game off...again.

Post by Ashley on Sat Jan 02, 2016 11:01 am


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Re: Game off...again.

Post by Sir Ged Roddy on Sat Jan 02, 2016 11:02 am

Unfortunately, those who remember the dreadful pitches used by QPR etc in the 80's still think that the modern 3G pitches are the same.  Go and have a look at Odd Down pitch, where the Academy side play.  I've also seen Merthyr's pitch - excellent.  3G pitches require a small amount of maintenance, for example to make sure that the rubber pellets are re-embedded in the 'grass', but the test requirements are much more stringent.  You have to make sure that the way the ball runs is accurate, the amount of bounce is correct.   And yet, what requirements are there for grass pitches? None at all. Another good reason for a 3G pitch is that it can be used all through the week, by academy players, kids teams etc, and this makes the ground a proper centre for all local football.  
Maidstone's pitch top is going to have to be replaced, but I believe that this is because the type that they bought was not the best, and the quality has improved since they installed theirs 5 years ago.  Even so, replacement of the pitch top is much cheaper than installing a whole new 3G pitch, with its under-pitch drainage etc.
3G is now allowed in Scottish Premier, and even some 'game' that involves fighting players spending most of the time on the ground now allows it as well.

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Re: Game off...again.

Post by comrade powell on Sat Jan 02, 2016 11:14 am

Yes, I expect the players would like many other things changed as well, Junior - mid winter breaks, avoidance of midweek games against most distant opponents, not playing on rock hard pitches in July friendlies etc. You mention your discomfort after playing on these pitches - is this the case with those who have played on the best?

I would imagine that Portsmouth's pitch has better drainage than Havant's. The problems which are suffered at WsM seem to be similar to what we endured at TP around thirty years ago - numerous postponements caused by waterlogging in the area nearest to Bristol end and pop side. I believe this was down to inadequate drainage, which was put right. I was told that the slope on the pitch now means that the main problem after prolonged rain is along the grandstand touchline. I would guess it's all down to where the water can drain away to on a sloping pitch - as is Havant's, so maybe there are other factors. Dorchester always claimed they rarely had postponements, because their pitch is above chalk.

Anyway, your task for the day Junior is not to go to the likes of Paulton/Frome, but provide a breakdown on reasons for postponements over the past 10 seasons - waterlogging, snow/frost, other reasons. I would guess rain has been by far the most common reason, whereas it used to be frozen pitches. By 5 pm please!
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Re: Game off...again.

Post by comrade powell on Sat Jan 02, 2016 11:28 am

From the Weston website...

The continuing bad weather has meant the postponement today of the above match following a 9am inspection. The Club have asked Hayes & Yeading to agree to as long as possible before staging the match. They have agreed to this. The match will now be played on Tuesday 16 February KO 7.45


Rather backs up Weirdtown's beef. I believe their Trophy tie with Wealdstone has already been called off three times. As Roddy says, there seem to be no regulations regarding quality of pitch laid down by leagues, yet it's the most important facility for staging a match after safety of those involved and attending.
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Re: Game off...again.

Post by stillmanjunior on Sat Jan 02, 2016 11:40 am

@comrade powell wrote:Anyway, your task for the day Junior is not to go to the likes of Paulton/Frome, but provide a breakdown on reasons for postponements over the past 10 seasons - waterlogging, snow/frost, other reasons. I would guess rain has been by far the most common reason, whereas it used to be frozen pitches. By 5 pm please!

No problem - in exchange you can swap places with me at work and then write 2000 words comparing two Dahl short stories Cool

Obviously there's a case for some teams to seriously consider changing their surface (then again I expect even Weston could find a way for 3G to waterlog) bus us? No thanks. I'll reply more fully later on, reasons above why I'm too busy to now.

Or I won't need to if people agree that the only way forward is for the FA to spend billions on non-league clubs to have retractable roofs like the Millennium Stadium or Centre Court at Wimbledon. The inside of Twerton Park can be like one of those snow globes. It's a winner, I'm telling you, Brian...
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Re: Game off...again.

Post by Colin Voutt on Sat Jan 02, 2016 11:43 am

@stillmanjunior wrote:
@comrade powell wrote:Anyway, your task for the day Junior is not to go to the likes of Paulton/Frome, but provide a breakdown on reasons for postponements over the past 10 seasons - waterlogging, snow/frost, other reasons. I would guess rain has been by far the most common reason, whereas it used to be frozen pitches. By 5 pm please!

No problem - in exchange you can swap places with me at work and then write 2000 words comparing two Dahl short stories Cool

Obviously there's a case for some teams to seriously consider changing their surface (then again I expect even Weston could find a way for 3G to waterlog) bus us? No thanks. I'll reply more fully later on, reasons above why I'm too busy to now.

Or I won't need to if people agree that the only way forward is for the FA to spend billions on non-league clubs to have retractable roofs like the Millennium Stadium or Centre Court at Wimbledon. The inside of Twerton Park can be like one of those snow globes. It's a winner, I'm telling you, Brian...

He will have to give you 3000 words I am afraid.

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Re: Game off...again.

Post by BenE on Sat Jan 02, 2016 2:16 pm

@2weirdtown wrote:An opportunity for my annual beef about why can't the season be extended to allow these games to be played on a Saturday.  That being the day supporters and, I'll bet, players would prefer.  But of course, the lifeblood of the sport don't count for much do they?
If play offs have to be delayed, so be it.  It's not as if they're played at Wembley.

Paul Williams was livid when they extended the season by a week as it means paying the players for an extra week. Midweek games are preferable because the players wages are already covered.
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Re: Game off...again.

Post by Micawber on Sat Jan 02, 2016 2:50 pm

Extending the season wouldn't work if you expected every postponed match to be played on a saturday. There would be some teams that had perhaps 4 home games postponed and other teams none. It would mean extending the season by perhaps a month and some teams would have a gap of 3 - 4 weeks before playing their postponed game. The space between the usual end of season and pre season friendlies is short enough as it is.

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Re: Game off...again.

Post by comrade powell on Sat Jan 02, 2016 3:25 pm

Of course, a postponed game could mean the home club forfeits the points. I don't hear of those requests going out to supporters to help get a pitch playable these days - what with heightened health and safety concerns these days, there doesn't seem to be the same desire to get games played these days.
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Re: Game off...again.

Post by Roman Mike on Sat Jan 02, 2016 6:07 pm

A couple of points:
1) I would have thought the main argument for 3G pitches is not to reduce the number of postponements of 1st team games but to to provide a facility which can be utilised 7 days a week - as a) a community hub and b) to promote and unite football teams at all levels and abilities. The laying of a 3G pitch is therefore arguably the easy bit.

2) I never understand that logic of comparing local grounds when postponements occurs. Too many localised variables (e.g. rainfall, drainage, geology etc.) make comparisons pointless in my view. Otherwise, there would be no point in us having a pitch inspection. We would just wait for Larkhall to have theirs - or vice versa.
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Re: Game off...again.

Post by Marc Monitor on Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:57 pm

@Roman Mike wrote:A couple of points:
1) I would have thought the main argument for 3G pitches is not to reduce the number of postponements of 1st team games but to to provide a facility which can be utilised 7 days a week - as a) a community hub and b) to promote and unite football teams at all levels and abilities.  The laying of a 3G pitch is therefore arguably the easy bit.

Yes, pretty much, as for as I understand it (see disclaimer in my signature). As stillman Junior points out in the other thread, we don't get that many postponements due to, as you point out, our location and the pitch draining well. Mind you, of course, it would cut up badly if the team trained on it as much as they would probably like to or the other teams used it.
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Re: Game off...again.

Post by Fantstone on Mon Jan 04, 2016 9:35 pm

well, as a maidstone fan this is, obviously, a topic which is very familiar to me. i personally don't play football, so can't really comment on that side of things, though my kids play at the PDC at the gallagher and they prefer it to grass. however that's hardly relevant when discussing football at this level. speaking to other fans i find that most are dead against it, though they may have a coloured view if they've just lost and sometimes it does seem there's an element of chagrin. another point is that some players say it's very stressful on knee and ankle joints, but that doesn't seem to be the case with our lads who play on it for most of the season. i think the main benefit to clubs at our level would be the finance it generates, which seems to be a major revenue stream for us. also, we don't get postponed matches, which means bigger gates as the matches are played on a saturday as opposed to rescheduled tuesday night games. aslo as i mentioned earlier the PDC and academies which draw a lot of the local youth in, who tend to come the the matches as well. there's so many pluses and minuses, it would take all night to go over them here but for me they're a step in the right direction, particularly at this level. it does seem strange that a world cup match can be played on one, along with the scottish premier league and many other cup and league competitions round the world, yet here there seems to be so much resistance to them. in all honesty i'm not knowledgeable enough about them to put up any real argument for them, but i will say that they allow some great football to be played, as witnessed by any of your lads who came to the gallagher when you played us last.

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Re: Game off...again.

Post by Marc Monitor on Mon Jan 04, 2016 9:54 pm

Thanks for the input, Fantstone. There are a lot of opinions around and it is good to have one with a bit of experience.
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Re: Game off...again.

Post by comrade powell on Mon Jan 04, 2016 10:41 pm

Yes, many thanks. I must say I was very impressed with your set up when we visited back in the Autumn and there was a real buzz around the place.
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Re: Game off...again.

Post by kermit on Tue Jan 05, 2016 5:18 pm

@comrade powell wrote:Yes, many thanks. I must say I was very impressed with your set up when we visited back in the Autumn and there was a real buzz around the place.
Are you confusing it with Barnet's new ground?
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Re: Game off...again.

Post by comrade powell on Tue Jan 05, 2016 5:48 pm

I will treat that with the contempt it deserves...
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Re: Game off...again.

Post by timM on Thu Jan 07, 2016 2:42 pm

Good Afternoon Guys
Another Maidstone fan in peace, for most us, at the start the 3g debate was quite simple, we were ground sharing with Ashford and Sittingbourne and the club quite frankly was going only one way, and that was a way most of us that were still supporting the club didn't want to see again!
Two guys saved the club and wanted to build us a ground in town for the first time in 20 odd years, but the only way the business model could work was to build it with an artificial pitch, so the income could support the building of the ground
Now having spent too many years driving 15-20 odd miles to watch my team at 'home', having a 3g pitch but a ground in town was a complete no-brainer!
As has been stated already this type of surface had already been used for a Champions League game, a World Cup qualifier and league games in Spain, Holland and Scotland etc, so surely it had to be acceptable to non-league in England
Our supporters play an annual game against the management and directors, which we usually get beaten as our Chief Exec does take it a bit seriously, well he's an ex league footballer so winning counts, however talking to several of our players afterwards, the most common reaction you get is 'after 10 mins you forget it's 3g'
Our pitch has the highest rating available, and yes it does need to be replaced sooner than originally expected but that's because we have been so successful in renting it out that we've worn it out faster than expected!
These pitches aren't like the ones from the 80's, they play very well, but of course we should have an advantage, but so do teams that play on a muddy fields, and we've seen plenty of them!
The only time we get any real criticism of the pitch is when a team is beaten, you have to think that's a bit of sour grapes!
Gus Poyet called the pitch magnificent, John Still then Dagenham manager, said it was better than many grass pitches in League 2, objective managers who've played on it, have said if you cant play on that you cant play on anything, the Merstham Manager Hayden Bird said 'he wanted to get his boots on again'
The pitches in this league have been pretty good on the whole excepting Concord, and I'm sure yours is one of the best, but you should see the ones we played on in the Ryman, but the bad weather has yet to kick in!
Would I prefer to play on grass?
In an ideal world yes, full time groundsman under soil heating and a surface like Arsenal or Spurs, however for us this is the way we must go to not just survive but be successful
Just my opinion, and obviously very biased, looking forward to meeting you guys on Saturday
I'll be easy to spot, I'll be the very stressed guy who is Chairman of the Supporters Club AND has organised an 83 seat double decker coach and is being freaked out by this bloody weather!  Wink

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Re: Game off...again.

Post by comrade powell on Thu Jan 07, 2016 6:31 pm

Thanks for that, Tim! I remember the artificial monstrosity at Loftus Road very well and thought your pitch was far, far advanced of that one. As you say, for the City match at your place I quickly forgot it wasn't a grass pitch.
Have a good trip down - if you can fill that coach it should help to provide a good atmosphere!
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Re: Game off...again.

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